Leafs Acquired Jonathan Bernier

[bustaheims]

I posted awhile back that RC didn't really use Frattin to best advantage.  Granted, he slumped after coming back from the injury, so it's hard to blame Carlyle.  I'm just saying that if he gets more icetime in LA he's got an intriguing combo of skills that could blossom.  Frattin strikes me as the kind of player who could break out and emerge as a really good one.  That's the gamble LA is taking, or else they could have gone with Read (according to reports).

It's quite doubtful Frattin will get more ice time in LA. With the depth they have, he'll be quite firmly entrenched on the 3rd line when they're healthy (possibly even their 4th line, depending on which wing they want him on). As for Frattin vs Read . . . Frattin's realistic upside is basically to be a similar player to Read. Being that Frattin is a couple years younger, $400K cheaper and an RFA at the end of the season instead of a UFA, that likely gave him more value to the Kings, and, we don't know what, if anything, the Flyers may have been offering in addition to Read. Even if we assume the rest of their assets were roughly equivalent to what the Leafs paid, the age, salary and free agent status differences are a good reasons why the Kings may have preferred Frattin.

 

[Kin]

Even if we assume the rest of their assets were roughly equivalent to what the Leafs paid, the age, salary and free agent status differences are a good reasons why the Kings may have preferred Frattin.

Honestly, if you consider the two players and what they've actually done in the NHL and consider that the Leafs were in a position to eat cap space in a way Philly wasn't I think it's pretty fair to say that LA probably liked Frattin less than Read.

 

[bustaheims]

Honestly, if you consider the two players and what they've actually done in the NHL and consider that the Leafs were in a position to eat cap space in a way Philly wasn't I think it's pretty fair to say that LA probably liked Frattin less than Read.

Sure, but, all things considered, it's debatable by how much - and, even then, it's quite possible that they preferred Frattin this whole time. Lombardi's interest in Frattin is fairly long-standing and well known. He could very well consider Frattin to be a more valuable asset that Read.

 

[Kin]

Honestly, if you consider the two players and what they've actually done in the NHL and consider that the Leafs were in a position to eat cap space in a way Philly wasn't I think it's pretty fair to say that LA probably liked Frattin less than Read.

Sure, but, all things considered, it's debatable by how much - and, even then, it's quite possible that they preferred Frattin this whole time. Lombardi's interest in Frattin is fairly long-standing and well known. He could very well consider Frattin to be a more valuable asset that Read.

Maybe. But to convince me of that I'd have to know that Philly's offer was something like Read + 1st + something.

 

[Joe S.]

It would have been a fair only if Frattin wasn't included....Frattin makes this lopsided in favor of LA!
They must be laughing

He has 15 freaking career nhl goals!

Someone mentioned Justin Williams - unless my math is way off he had 79 career goals by the time he was 25.

Modin had 60 career goals by the time he was 25

Stalberg had 42 career goals by the time he was 25

I just don't see the diamond in the rough that many here are alluding to. Of the top of my head I can't think of any player of significance that broke into the league at that late of an age had that tough of a time scoring goals then went on to become some type of sniper.

Maybe St. Louis? But Frattin ain't not St Louis.

 

[Kin]

I just don't see the diamond in the rough that many here are alluding to. Of the top of my head I can't think of any player of significance that broke into the league at that late of an age had that tough of a time scoring goals then went on to become some type of sniper.

*Ahem*

 

[lamajama]

Personally I will miss Frattin but is it at all possible that for one of the
rare occasions in recent Leaf history that we have someone on the Marlies
that has shown enough growth and potential do the same (or close)  job as Matt? I mean apparently we have improved our prospect pool significantly have we not....?

 

[Corn Flake]

It would have been a fair only if Frattin wasn't included....Frattin makes this lopsided in favor of LA!
They must be laughing

In the context of what other highly touted young goalies have gone for in the last 18 months, you couldn't be more wrong. The Leafs gave up similar value to what Tampa Bay did for a less experienced Lindback, marginally more than what Columbus gave up for Bobrovsky and less than what Colorado gave up for Varlamov.

I dont understand peoples love with Frattin. He reminds me of the Jeremy Williams. He had a good shot players hard did not amount into much IMO. I also think this will make Reimer better because he will have to improve to keep his job.

Jeremy Williams? LOLOLOL

Frattin has two things Williams didn't have:  Fantastic wheels, and a brain.

 

[iwas11in67]

What is Bernier's record in shootouts? Reimer is less than good in them. In a full season this could be the difference in making the playoffs or not OR top 4 and home ice advantage.

 

[Joe S.]

I just don't see the diamond in the rough that many here are alluding to. Of the top of my head I can't think of any player of significance that broke into the league at that late of an age had that tough of a time scoring goals then went on to become some type of sniper.

*Ahem*

You know I love you, but ...

 

[Redleaf]

Who really knows what the future holds for either Bernier or Frattin. For obvious reasons I know Frattin better than Bernier. I think he has the potential to become a top 6, perennial 25-30 goal scorer in the regular season for LA. But the thing that stands out to me, was how much better he looked than everyone else on the ice during the Marlies run last season. He looked like a man on a mission. He seems like the kind of player, when motivated, that could elevate his play when the games really matter. No, we didnt see it this playoff year with the Leafs. Whether it was lack of motivation, inexperience at the NHL playoff level, lingering effects of the injury or the way he was used by RC, but it wasnt there. Put him with some better line mates, and light a fire under him, and I think we will see a hell of a player, especially in future post seasons.

Im hoping Bernier plays lights out for Toronto, but just because he has the natural ability, and comes highly touted, it doesnt mean he'll catch fire here. Toronto isn't the goalie graveyard Philadelphia has been in recent years, but we've certainly seen our share of busts. Lets hope Bernier shines, and regardless of how Frattin progresses, we can still look back at this trade in a year or two and say we got the better player.

 

[Deebo]

I think he has the potential to become a top 6, perennial 25-30 goal scorer in the regular season for LA.

There are very few perennial 25+ goal scorers in the NHL.

10 players put up 25+ in the last 4 seasons (I used 15 goals as that number for lockout shortened season). Some others may have missed the mark in some of those 4 seasons due to injury, but still scored at that pace. Either way, saying Frattin has a chance to be a perennial 25+ goal scorer would be putting him among the top 10-20 goal scorers in the NHL.

 

[ZBBM]

I just don't see the diamond in the rough that many here are alluding to. Of the top of my head I can't think of any player of significance that broke into the league at that late of an age had that tough of a time scoring goals then went on to become some type of sniper.

*Ahem*

My God. I had completely forgotten about him.  Didn't even recognize the Fist Pump That Briere Stole.  I was sitting there thinking, "That doesn't look like Dany Markov, and he was no sniper."  :

 

[Jalili]

I think he has the potential to become a top 6, perennial 25-30 goal scorer in the regular season for LA.

There are very few perennial 25+ goal scorers in the NHL.

10 players put up 25+ in the last 4 seasons (I used 15 goals as that number for lockout shortened season). Some others may have missed the mark in some of those 4 seasons due to injury, but still scored at that pace. Either way, saying Frattin has a chance to be a perennial 25+ goal scorer would be putting him among the top 10-20 goal scorers in the NHL.

15-20 is more probable, with 25 maybe as a career high.

 

[Redleaf]

I think he has the potential to become a top 6, perennial 25-30 goal scorer in the regular season for LA.

There are very few perennial 25+ goal scorers in the NHL.

10 players put up 25+ in the last 4 seasons (I used 15 goals as that number for lockout shortened season). Some others may have missed the mark in some of those 4 seasons due to injury, but still scored at that pace. Either way, saying Frattin has a chance to be a perennial 25+ goal scorer would be putting him among the top 10-20 goal scorers in the NHL.

59 players in the NHL scored 25 goals or more in the last full season (2011-12). Perhaps I've over extended the use of the word perennial?

 

[Deebo]

I think he has the potential to become a top 6, perennial 25-30 goal scorer in the regular season for LA.

There are very few perennial 25+ goal scorers in the NHL.

10 players put up 25+ in the last 4 seasons (I used 15 goals as that number for lockout shortened season). Some others may have missed the mark in some of those 4 seasons due to injury, but still scored at that pace. Either way, saying Frattin has a chance to be a perennial 25+ goal scorer would be putting him among the top 10-20 goal scorers in the NHL.

59 players in the NHL scored 25 goals or more in the last full season (2011-12). Perhaps I've over extended the use of the word perennial?

A perennial 25+ goal scorer would consistently scoring at that pace, year after year.

 

[Redleaf]

I think he has the potential to become a top 6, perennial 25-30 goal scorer in the regular season for LA.

There are very few perennial 25+ goal scorers in the NHL.

10 players put up 25+ in the last 4 seasons (I used 15 goals as that number for lockout shortened season). Some others may have missed the mark in some of those 4 seasons due to injury, but still scored at that pace. Either way, saying Frattin has a chance to be a perennial 25+ goal scorer would be putting him among the top 10-20 goal scorers in the NHL.

59 players in the NHL scored 25 goals or more in the last full season (2011-12). Perhaps I've over extended the use of the word perennial?

A perennial 25+ goal scorer would consistently scoring at that pace, year after year.

You have to give some of those players the odd season in between where they didnt hit those numbers due to injury though, or an off season. If they hit 25 goals or more in 7 out of 10 years, I'd still label them 'perennial' 25+ goal scorers.

EDIT: But I get your point. My guesstimates may be a little on the high end.

 

[Deebo]

I think he has the potential to become a top 6, perennial 25-30 goal scorer in the regular season for LA.

There are very few perennial 25+ goal scorers in the NHL.

10 players put up 25+ in the last 4 seasons (I used 15 goals as that number for lockout shortened season). Some others may have missed the mark in some of those 4 seasons due to injury, but still scored at that pace. Either way, saying Frattin has a chance to be a perennial 25+ goal scorer would be putting him among the top 10-20 goal scorers in the NHL.

59 players in the NHL scored 25 goals or more in the last full season (2011-12). Perhaps I've over extended the use of the word perennial?

A perennial 25+ goal scorer would consistently scoring at that pace, year after year.

You have to give some of those players the odd season in between where they didnt hit those numbers due to injury though, or an off season. If they hit 25 goals or more in 7 out of 10 years, I'd still label them 'perennial' 25+ goal scorers.

EDIT: But I get your point. My guesstimates may be a little on the high end.

I just went back 4 years and found that only 10 had reached that point all 4 times, 31 did it 3 times in those 4 seasons, again with 15 being the total to be included in 2013.

 

[Redleaf]

I think he has the potential to become a top 6, perennial 25-30 goal scorer in the regular season for LA.

There are very few perennial 25+ goal scorers in the NHL.

10 players put up 25+ in the last 4 seasons (I used 15 goals as that number for lockout shortened season). Some others may have missed the mark in some of those 4 seasons due to injury, but still scored at that pace. Either way, saying Frattin has a chance to be a perennial 25+ goal scorer would be putting him among the top 10-20 goal scorers in the NHL.

59 players in the NHL scored 25 goals or more in the last full season (2011-12). Perhaps I've over extended the use of the word perennial?

A perennial 25+ goal scorer would consistently scoring at that pace, year after year.

You have to give some of those players the odd season in between where they didnt hit those numbers due to injury though, or an off season. If they hit 25 goals or more in 7 out of 10 years, I'd still label them 'perennial' 25+ goal scorers.

EDIT: But I get your point. My guesstimates may be a little on the high end.

I just went back 4 years and found that only 10 had reached that point all 4 times, 31 did it 3 times in those 4 seasons, again with 15 being the total to be included in 2013.

Not sure how to do it (quickly that is), but it would be interesting to see how many players hit that 25+ mark at least 4 times in the past 5 or 6 years?

 

[Deebo]

I think he has the potential to become a top 6, perennial 25-30 goal scorer in the regular season for LA.

There are very few perennial 25+ goal scorers in the NHL.

10 players put up 25+ in the last 4 seasons (I used 15 goals as that number for lockout shortened season). Some others may have missed the mark in some of those 4 seasons due to injury, but still scored at that pace. Either way, saying Frattin has a chance to be a perennial 25+ goal scorer would be putting him among the top 10-20 goal scorers in the NHL.

59 players in the NHL scored 25 goals or more in the last full season (2011-12). Perhaps I've over extended the use of the word perennial?

A perennial 25+ goal scorer would consistently scoring at that pace, year after year.

You have to give some of those players the odd season in between where they didnt hit those numbers due to injury though, or an off season. If they hit 25 goals or more in 7 out of 10 years, I'd still label them 'perennial' 25+ goal scorers.

EDIT: But I get your point. My guesstimates may be a little on the high end.

I just went back 4 years and found that only 10 had reached that point all 4 times, 31 did it 3 times in those 4 seasons, again with 15 being the total to be included in 2013.

Not sure how to do it (quickly that is), but it would be interesting to see how many players hit that 25+ mark at least 4 times in the past 5 or 6 years?

31 players:

Alex Ovechkin 6
Rick Nash 6
Thomas Vanek 6
Corey Perry 6
Martin St Louis 6
Ilya Kovalchuk 5
Jarome Iginla 5
Eric Staal 5
Patrick Sharp 5
Anze Kopitar 5
Zach Parise 5
Daniel Sedin 5
Marian Hossa 5
Jeff Carter 5
Patrick Marleau 5
Phil Kessel 5
Jonathan Toews 5
Evgeni Malkin 4
Dany Heatley 4
Pavel Datsyuk 4
Johan Franzen 4
Alexander Semin 4
Loui Eriksson 4
Sidney Crosby 4
Bobby Ryan 4
Alexandre Burrows 4
Teemu Selanne 4
Patrick Kane 4
Joe Pavelski 4
Steven Stamkos 4
Matt Moulson 4