Leafs Acquired Jonathan Bernier

[jdh1]

Of all the talk this past year of Luongo coming here...this is a refreshing move,getting youth in the most important position on the ice.

 

[LittleHockeyFan]

FrattinBear is pissed off.

I *just* made her too, dammit??.

 

[riff raff]

Unlike many, I'm not sure that Reimer is the answer in goal, so I'm not upset that the team is looking at upgrading the position.

The question is: is Bernier an upgrade? I'm not sure about that.

And as others have pointed out, the Leafs recent history in terms of goalie talent appraisal has not been good.

I'm sorry to see Frattin go as he had goal scoring instincts. And Ben Scrivens is a cool, cool guy. But that is part of the whole business of sports. I am concerned that they overpaid for LA's back up.

Of course this is the team that sent Rask to Boston for the Bruins third-string goalie.

 

[Kin]

And as others have pointed out, the Leafs recent history in terms of goalie talent appraisal has not been good.

I'm sorry but I have to ask and this isn't so much directed at you because as you mention other people have brought it up but what does this have to do with anything? You're talking, I assume, about decisions made by different GM's with largely different staffs. I mean, what's left from the JFJ era? A handful of scouts maybe? Meanhile, the team has new players, coaches, a GM, front office staff, a new President and new ownership. Why should JFJ's decisions cloud anyone's perception of one Nonis makes?

I mean, unless the idea is that there's some bad mojo at work that prevents Leafs GMs from assessing goaltenders and honestly that sounds like the sort of thinking that really takes horoscopes seriously.

 

[azzurri63]

What the f**k is Nonis on. Horrible deal. Honestly think some of us could be managers. Reimer played well. Did he have his blips no doubt but honestly I don't think they are being fair to him with his good play. Bernier still have my doubts. They obviously think he is better than Reimer by what they gave up. Letting Frattin go alone is going to come back and bite them plus Scrivens and a 2nd. Horrible deal. As much as Burke got criticized for the Kessel trade don't think any of his trades were bad. Awful. Nonis got schooled on this one. Love to see what is said next year when Reimer is our #1.

 

[riff raff]

And as others have pointed out, the Leafs recent history in terms of goalie talent appraisal has not been good.

I'm sorry but I have to ask and this isn't so much directed at you because as you mention other people have brought it up but what does this have to do with anything? You're talking, I assume, about decisions made by different GM's with largely different staffs. I mean, what's left from the JFJ era? A handful of scouts maybe? Meanhile, the team has new players, coaches, a GM, front office staff, a new President and new ownership. Why should JFJ's decisions cloud anyone's perception of one Nonis makes?

I mean, unless the idea is that there's some bad mojo at work that prevents Leafs GMs from assessing goaltenders and honestly that sounds like the sort of thinking that really takes horoscopes seriously.

As far as I was concerned, it was a 'karma'/'luck' thing.

Horoscopes work, too.

(JFJ misjudged; Burke misjudged. It might be something in the water )

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I mean, unless the idea is that there's some bad mojo at work that prevents Leafs GMs from assessing goaltenders and honestly that sounds like the sort of thinking that really takes horoscopes seriously.

The GhostOfJFJ?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Letting Frattin go alone is going to come back and bite them

How?

 

[Kin]

As far as I was concerned, it was a 'karma'/'luck' thing.

Horoscopes work, too.

I suppose but it's not like JFJ's evaluation record was brilliant when it came to forwards/defensemen either so it seems like something that could be said for literally anything that ever happens with the Leafs.

 

[riff raff]

As far as I was concerned, it was a 'karma'/'luck' thing.

Horoscopes work, too.

I suppose but it's not like JFJ's evaluation record was brilliant when it came to forwards/defensemen either so it seems like something that could be said for literally anything that ever happens with the Leafs.

Relax. It wasn't meant to be taken so seriously.

 

[Tigger]

I have a hunch that Frattin is going to end being a 20+ goal quick banging forward so my initial reaction was a bit down on the deal, hate losing him, however, Bernier is a quality young goalie and the Leafs have really shored up the most important position so it's a bit bittersweet overall.

 

[KW Sluggo]

And as others have pointed out, the Leafs recent history in terms of goalie talent appraisal has not been good.

I'm sorry but I have to ask and this isn't so much directed at you because as you mention other people have brought it up but what does this have to do with anything? You're talking, I assume, about decisions made by different GM's with largely different staffs. I mean, what's left from the JFJ era? A handful of scouts maybe? Meanhile, the team has new players, coaches, a GM, front office staff, a new President and new ownership. Why should JFJ's decisions cloud anyone's perception of one Nonis makes?

I mean, unless the idea is that there's some bad mojo at work that prevents Leafs GMs from assessing goaltenders and honestly that sounds like the sort of thinking that really takes horoscopes seriously.

What's past is past or what's past is prologue?

You analysis is empirically sound and yet history has been known to repeat itself, particularly when Leaf trades for young saviour goalies is concerned. I can still recall the posts complaining of my cynicism regarding the acquisition of Raycroft (a Calder winner, I was reminded ad nauseum...just like Brit Selby was my reply) who was a soon to be released 3rd goalie on a no cap room left Bruins roster.

This time around I think we will be more fortunate and after all, the cost is a lot less than it was the last two times. So...despite the fact that you are factually correct Nik, I cannot fault those who evince a sense of deja vue because after all, those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I  liked Frattin but you have to give something to get something and Scrivens (though I like him as well) was a logical pice to the swap.

Bottom line is I am with you on this Nik, but just a little nervous at the historical parallels.

 

[Kin]

Nonis got schooled on this one. Love to see what is said next year when Reimer is our #1.

There's absolutely nothing here, neither the price the team paid or the fact that it was made at all, that suggests that the team doesn't think Reimer will be the #1. The only reasonable inferences one could take away from this is the Leafs felt they needed better depth at the position because they don't think Reimer is a guarantee to play 65+ games next year. That's not unfair to him that's just a sensible hedging of bets.

 

[azzurri63]

Letting Frattin go alone is going to come back and bite them

How?

The kid has shown that he has the potential. Did he falter during the season for sure but he also had some injury problems and Carlyle didn't use him properly. Has some consistency problems for sure but think he will overcome them. Throw him on a decent line and think he can be a 25 goal scorer. If he gets that chance in LA I'll eat my words if he doesn't get that or more. Great shot, has the intensity, good along the boards. He's a good player and if used right will prosper from it. Know he had some issues in college and maybe there is still something going on and maybe that's why they are giving up on him but if that's not the case big mistake. I like Bernier don't get me wrong but I was happy with Reimer and Scrivens play last year. The 2 of them carried us for the most part albeit with crappy defensive play. Honestly don't think Bernier is much of an upgrade and if so I think he could have been had for less.We gave up too much.

 

[Kin]

This time around I think we will be more fortunate and after all, the cost is a lot less than it was the last two times. So...despite the fact that you are factually correct Nik, I cannot fault those who evince a sense of deja vue because after all, those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I'm fine with looking to the past to get a sense of things but I don't think that analysis should be as superficial as "JFJ was the GM of the Leafs, so is Dave Nonis, therefore JFJ's deals reflect on Dave Nonis" when Nonis himself has a pretty good record of acquiring goaltending talent both by draft(Schneider) and by trade(Luongo)

 

[KW Sluggo]

I mean, unless the idea is that there's some bad mojo at work that prevents Leafs GMs from assessing goaltenders and honestly that sounds like the sort of thinking that really takes horoscopes seriously.

The GhostOfJFJ?

I miss that guy - ghost of JFJ that is, not JFJ

 

[Kin]

Honestly don't think Bernier is much of an upgrade and if so I think he could have been had for less.We gave up too much.

Considering that last night they were reporting an ongoing effort by multiple teams to trade for Bernier it seems pretty presumptuous to assume that Nonis didn't have a sense of what it would actually cost to acquire him. I mean, maybe it's me, but every time I've seen trade negotiations happen it's not like they're sealed, closed bid auctions.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Honestly don't think Bernier is much of an upgrade and if so I think he could have been had for less.We gave up too much.

Considering that last night they were reporting an ongoing effort by multiple teams to trade for Bernier it seems pretty presumptuous to assume that Nonis didn't have a sense of what it would actually cost to acquire him. I mean, maybe it's me, but every time I've seen trade negotiations happen it's not like they're sealed, closed bid auctions.

You could probably argue that the Leafs got the most sought-after goalie available at the moment. And all they had to give up was a career back-up, a 3rd liner with 2nd line upside, and a 2nd round pick that might not be used for two years and probably won't see the NHL for five.

 

[sneakyray]

didn't bernier play so well when quick was hurt last year that there was talk that the Kings couldn't afford to trade him?

He is at least insurance when reimer blows out his other knee going down to block a shot and not getting touched by anyone next year.

 

[Jalili]

I'd rather they had traded away their 1st this year. Frattin alone is too much. He's gonna be a star. Book it.....

My thoughts exactly.  Matt Frattin has Dustin Brown written all over him.  Now he's going learn from the original Dustin Brown...

I like Frattin, but he's no Dustin Brown.

I have a feeling he'll fit in well on the Kings, but Frattin's only 3 years younger than Brown and isn't an NHL regular yet. When Brown was Frattin's age he was already a 50-60 point player and captain of the Kings.