Leafs @ Wings - Mar. 18th, 7:30pm - SN, SN 590

[CarltonTheBear]

Pretty sure this team was just scorching for the better part of a month. Can't win 'em all.

It's funny how quickly some people turn on Kessel and other players though, and are now actively rooting for the team to fail. The playoffs were fun last year, man. If they make it again, you should probably just enjoy the ride.

It's a very young team learning how to be a great team, and certainly there are a few missing pieces, particularly on defence, but no, let's fire the coach and blow it up.

The majority of the people this post was directed to aren't blaming Kessel in the slightest bit.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

At that point I think it's about the best chance for possession, I don't know why Bozak wasn't there, he'd be my first choice but McClement isn't a bad option when it comes to faceoffs.

When has Carlyle ever cared about possession

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Gardiner .... Gardiner.  I've pretty much changed my mind on him.  Up til now I've wanted them to hang onto him and see if they can't drum some defensive sense into him.  His goal tonite obviously showcases his wildman upside but he was awful defensively most of the evening.  I don't think he'll ever be much good defending.  If we were the Blackhawks you could live with him as a #6, but not us.

So off base.

Just look at the stats from tonight.  Gardiner played the most even-strength minutes on the team tonight and at 5 on 5 tonight when Gardiner was on the ice the Leafs had 22 shot attempts to Detroit's 14. Link

If he was as awful at defending as you state, wouldn't those numbers be the other way around?  Especially in that many ES minutes?

 

[bustaheims]

Instead of criticizing McClement we might ask why hasn't Kadri improved enough to take draw like that, if for whatever reason RC doesn't want Bozak doing it.

I think Kadri has improved enough to be used in that kind of situation. He's been above 50% on a regular basis. And, even if Carlyle thinks he hasn't, when there's 30 seconds left in the game and your team needs a goal, you put your best offensive players out there. Win with your best players, lose with your best players.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Instead of criticizing McClement we might ask why hasn't Kadri improved enough to take draw like that, if for whatever reason RC doesn't want Bozak doing it.

Mirtle says Kadri's close to 50% lately.

 

[Tigger]

Unless he wins the draw, which he has done more often than not for quite some time. He didn't the last time and that sucks but c'mon, he was there for the faceoff and that's fine.

Even if he wins the draw. Once that happens, his usefulness disappears. He's only useful for that fraction of a second, and, after that, he's just taking up a spot on the ice that could be given to someone who could actually help put the puck in the net.

If he wins the draw there's a fair bit of talent that could do something with it, but yeah, he's useful for that particular second... and that was my point. What I hate seeing is the bleeding 'why did Carlyle do that' when it's perfectly reasonable to want a player that has a better chance of winning a faceoff than not in the circle when a team is down a goal at the end of a game and in the offensive zone.

I suppose the answers to 'why not Bozak or Kadri' could be answered but then that would require some information not currently available.

 

[Tigger]

At that point I think it's about the best chance for possession, I don't know why Bozak wasn't there, he'd be my first choice but McClement isn't a bad option when it comes to faceoffs.

When has Carlyle ever cared about possession

He's calling a priest as we type...

 

[mc]

If playoffs start today we get Pitts.

 

[ZBBM]

Gardiner .... Gardiner.  I've pretty much changed my mind on him.  Up til now I've wanted them to hang onto him and see if they can't drum some defensive sense into him.  His goal tonite obviously showcases his wildman upside but he was awful defensively most of the evening.  I don't think he'll ever be much good defending.  If we were the Blackhawks you could live with him as a #6, but not us.

So off base.

Just look at the stats from tonight.  Gardiner played the most even-strength minutes on the team tonight and at 5 on 5 tonight when Gardiner was on the ice the Leafs had 22 shot attempts to Detroit's 14. Link

If he was as awful at defending as you state, wouldn't those numbers be the other way around?  Especially in that many ES minutes?

Uh, you're using Carlyle's icetime decisions to make your point?

 

[ZBBM]

Instead of criticizing McClement we might ask why hasn't Kadri improved enough to take draw like that, if for whatever reason RC doesn't want Bozak doing it.

I think Kadri has improved enough to be used in that kind of situation. He's been above 50% on a regular basis. And, even if Carlyle thinks he hasn't, when there's 30 seconds left in the game and your team needs a goal, you put your best offensive players out there. Win with your best players, lose with your best players.

I'm not really disagreeing with you, but what was Kadri tonight? 

In any case, I don't understand why Bozak didn't take them.

 

[L K]

Carlyle is a god-damn ass.  I'm really tired of the way this team puts in a poor effort, tries to play catch up and then loses..or gets a lead and then stops playing because they play that collapsing protect defense that never works.

But hey, I was able to call that he was going to take yet another shot at Reimer right after that 3rd goal.  Screw calling out your crappy defense for taking ill-advised pinches.  Screw actually having the team play good hockey.  Blame the goalies for not having a .960 SV% every night.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Carlyle on Reimer. "He was okay, just okay."

Reimer on that comment: "He thought I was just okay? Hmm I thought I was good."

One of them is 100% gone in the off season.

 

[Bonsixx]

Pretty sure this team was just scorching for the better part of a month. Can't win 'em all.

It's funny how quickly some people turn on Kessel and other players though, and are now actively rooting for the team to fail. The playoffs were fun last year, man. If they make it again, you should probably just enjoy the ride.

It's a very young team learning how to be a great team, and certainly there are a few missing pieces, particularly on defence, but no, let's fire the coach and blow it up.

The majority of the people this post was directed to aren't blaming Kessel in the slightest bit.

I said "some" people are blaming Kessel. Saw it pop up in the thread, can't remember by who. It really just blows my mind.

It's certainly not everybody, though I do think most people could stand to chill a little after a loss. If you're waiting for Carlyle to be fired and Phaneuf to be traded, you are in for a frustrating, hellish next few years.

 

[mc]

Carlyle on Reimer. "He was okay, just okay."

Reimer on that comment: "He thought I was just okay? Hmm I thought I was good."

One of them is 100% gone in the off season.

Goodbye Randy.

 

[ZBBM]

Carlyle on Reimer. "He was okay, just okay."

Reimer on that comment: "He thought I was just okay? Hmm I thought I was good."

One of them is 100% gone in the off season.

Goodbye Randy.

I'm with Bonsixx on this.  When you lose, you weren't good enough to be disputing that point.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I'm with Bonsixx on this.  When you lose, you weren't good enough to be disputing that point.

Bernier's never been "good" in a loss?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Gardiner .... Gardiner.  I've pretty much changed my mind on him.  Up til now I've wanted them to hang onto him and see if they can't drum some defensive sense into him.  His goal tonite obviously showcases his wildman upside but he was awful defensively most of the evening.  I don't think he'll ever be much good defending.  If we were the Blackhawks you could live with him as a #6, but not us.

So off base.

Just look at the stats from tonight.  Gardiner played the most even-strength minutes on the team tonight and at 5 on 5 tonight when Gardiner was on the ice the Leafs had 22 shot attempts to Detroit's 14. Link

If he was as awful at defending as you state, wouldn't those numbers be the other way around?  Especially in that many ES minutes?

Uh, you're using Carlyle's icetime decisions to make your point?

No?  I was putting how well Gardiner performed into context - as in, the Leafs appear to have controlled play and took it to Detroit when Gardiner was on the ice and he did so while logging a lot of even strength minutes.  For a team that gets badly outshot almost nightly, and outpossessed, Gardiner appears to be one who bucks those trends for the Leafs.  Having a defenseman able to do that is a huge advantage, even if he's not great in his own end - he tends to help keep the other team in theirs.

 

[Tigger]

Carlyle on Reimer. "He was okay, just okay."

Reimer on that comment: "He thought I was just okay? Hmm I thought I was good."

One of them is 100% gone in the off season.

Goodbye Randy.

Could be both of them, hard to say.

 

[L K]

Carlyle on Reimer. "He was okay, just okay."

Reimer on that comment: "He thought I was just okay? Hmm I thought I was good."

One of them is 100% gone in the off season.

Goodbye Randy.

Could be both of them, hard to say.

I have to say.  I'm locked in that the coach is the problem with this team.  I don't think they suddenly become a top puck possession team with a guy like Laviolette but I'm done with this team being considered good when they need their goaltender to give up less than 2 goals a game AND have a .930 SV% to win.

 

[ZBBM]

Gardiner .... Gardiner.  I've pretty much changed my mind on him.  Up til now I've wanted them to hang onto him and see if they can't drum some defensive sense into him.  His goal tonite obviously showcases his wildman upside but he was awful defensively most of the evening.  I don't think he'll ever be much good defending.  If we were the Blackhawks you could live with him as a #6, but not us.

So off base.

Just look at the stats from tonight.  Gardiner played the most even-strength minutes on the team tonight and at 5 on 5 tonight when Gardiner was on the ice the Leafs had 22 shot attempts to Detroit's 14. Link

If he was as awful at defending as you state, wouldn't those numbers be the other way around?  Especially in that many ES minutes?

Uh, you're using Carlyle's icetime decisions to make your point?

No?  I was putting how well Gardiner performed into context - as in, the Leafs appear to have controlled play and took it to Detroit when Gardiner was on the ice and he did so while logging a lot of even strength minutes.  For a team that gets badly outshot almost nightly, and outpossessed, Gardiner appears to be one who bucks those trends for the Leafs.  Having a defenseman able to do that is a huge advantage, even if he's not great in his own end - he tends to help keep the other team in theirs.

That's unfortunately what we can't afford.  A stacked team could.  If Rielly weren't here I might have more patience with Gardiner.