GhostofPotvin29
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cw said:
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A Gardiner decision could come this week but I see the return of Connolly & Kadri a little differently. They're both forwards.
If Gardiner goes down, there's probably a dman coming back fairly soon to keep seven around for emergencies (ie pregame injury). Six dmen and 15 forwards doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
I think everyone would agree that Frattin & Kadri have to keep playing - not sit in a press box. Kadri's probably going down for a conditioning stint anyway so they can probably defer a decision for a couple of games (after he's declared fit to play later this week) and maybe another injury makes a decision for them.
I still haven't seen anything terribly wrong with Frattin's game and I'd handily have him ahead of Kadri.
Also I'd prefer they sit the enforcer when facing teams like the Wings who don't dress one. If the Rosehill/Orr thing is sorted out, Rosehill could easily be sent down as BWB says. I can't see them keeping two enforcers long term. I still think something is up with Orr. They only played him 2 minutes and change against the Sens. Maybe that will clear up this week.
The benefit of Frattin & Kadri going down is that nobody has to clear waivers.
I'm not sure what they'll do.
With another week under his belt, Lombardi may be ready for 3rd line duty too. I like Frattinon the thrid line but the dominoes of Lombardi staying on the 4th line means something else has to give. If Lombardi was totally healthy and fit, this is probably what I'd do:
Lupul Connolly Kessel
MacArthur Grabovski Kulemin
Frattin Lombardi Armstrong
Brown Steckel/Bozak Dupuis/enforcer if needed
If Gardiner goes down, there's probably a dman coming back fairly soon to keep seven around for emergencies (ie pregame injury). Six dmen and 15 forwards doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
I think everyone would agree that Frattin & Kadri have to keep playing - not sit in a press box. Kadri's probably going down for a conditioning stint anyway so they can probably defer a decision for a couple of games (after he's declared fit to play later this week) and maybe another injury makes a decision for them.
I still haven't seen anything terribly wrong with Frattin's game and I'd handily have him ahead of Kadri.
Also I'd prefer they sit the enforcer when facing teams like the Wings who don't dress one. If the Rosehill/Orr thing is sorted out, Rosehill could easily be sent down as BWB says. I can't see them keeping two enforcers long term. I still think something is up with Orr. They only played him 2 minutes and change against the Sens. Maybe that will clear up this week.
The benefit of Frattin & Kadri going down is that nobody has to clear waivers.
I'm not sure what they'll do.
With another week under his belt, Lombardi may be ready for 3rd line duty too. I like Frattinon the thrid line but the dominoes of Lombardi staying on the 4th line means something else has to give. If Lombardi was totally healthy and fit, this is probably what I'd do:
Lupul Connolly Kessel
MacArthur Grabovski Kulemin
Frattin Lombardi Armstrong
Brown Steckel/Bozak Dupuis/enforcer if needed
BlueWhiteBlood
New member
I like the work Frattin has been doing also, but I don't think he gets a higher position than Bozak. I think he goes down to the Marlies before Bozak plays on the 4th line. Bozak not getting any love at all and I think management/ coaching staff think more highly of him than that personally.
I see a healthy line up looking slightly different.
Lupul Connolly Kessel
MacArthur Grabovski Kulemin
Lombardi Bozak Armstrong
Brown Steckel Dupuis/enforcer if needed
BlueWhiteBlood
New member
Just to expand on Gradiner a bit. Doesn't it make more sense to have Gardiner play for the Marlies in all situations and top minutes, so he can hopefully replace Liles next season? I'm not trying to take anything away from the youngster, but I think development would be the top priority here. I supported him making the team, because he had an outstanding camp, but I also thought we were going to see a trade of at least one guy off that blue line. I suppose there still could be a trade, but until something is imminent, I'd send him down and let Eakins work with him on the finer points of playing defense in the Pro's.
leafplasma
New member
[/quote]BlueWhiteBlood said:
I would have to agree with your lineup as well. I see Kadri and Frattin eventually replacing 2 of Lupul, Mac, Lombardi or Bozak once two of them are dealt by next season unless of course Kadri and Frattin are the ones going out in any eventual deal. This season Kadri and Frattin will see enough time as injury replacements.
BlueWhiteBlood said:
Three pretty good NHL coaches with a flair for defence have liked Lombardi at center: Sutter, Tippett & Trotz. He's played well there. He's been one of their top Pkers and he's popped his share of points with respectable ice time of around 17 mins - with a chunk of it on the PK. Except for his season in Phoenix, he hasn't seen tons of PP time. He's a proven NHL center who has to prove he's still capable after his concussion. So far, so good but he has a ways to go.
Bozak received 19mins per game, more PP time, less PK time, a thoroughbred sniper in Kessel and in my opinion, has done less.
Neither are physical players but between the two, Bozak seems more of the perimeter player to me. Lombardi has the better speed and proven PK ability while Bozak (only 32% on the draws in his first two games) is the better faceoff guy.
With a weakish top 6 by NHL contender standards, my hope for two seasons has been the Leafs would have a third line that checks and scores. A number of NHL teams have been moving this way. (as opposed to a checking line that doesn't score much - see Brent, Sjostrum et al)
In Armstrong, you have a guy who can go into the corners and win battles for the puck and go to the net. In Lombardi & Bozak you have guys who can distribute the puck. In Frattin, you have a guy who hits more than Bozak & Lombardi, is better along the boards than those two and he has a respectable gun for a shot. Frattin seems to bring something to that line that the Bozak-Lombardi combo do not. And Frattin seems beyond his limited NHL experience in how responsible he is with the puck and his defensive play - way ahead of Kadri in that department in my opinion.
So it's a case of putting players in the best position to succeed for the team. Frattin's set of talents seem to compliment that line better by bringing something different than having two guys (Lombardi & Bozak) who bring a somewhat similar offensive and defensive game to that line.
In fact, I'd be inclined to keep Frattin on that line and have Lombardi on the 4th if he's not ready because I like the mix of his talents with Armstrong & a center like Bozak/Lombardi better.
This is the sort of thing that must happen as teams improve their roster talent. Guys we may have liked in the past have to fall back when the better talents arrive to improve the club. And Wilson can't afford to screw around this season. He has to go with the players that give him the best chance to win now.
Britishbulldog
Active member
cw said:
Due to waivers, 2 way vs 1 way contracts, etc I expect BWB's lineup over yours but I understand your logic.
BlueWhiteBlood said:
It makes a ton of sense for his long term development and building a championship team. In fairness to the club, they had no intention of keeping him when camp started but it's pretty tough to play as well as the kid did in preseason and reward him with a boot. It doesn't just send a message to Gardiner - it sends the wrong message to the vets and the kids trying to crack the lineup. I think it's positive for the kids to believe if they play well, they'll get a shot and it's good for the vets to know that if they slack off, they hottest kid on the Marlies will be up to take his ice time.
Maybe I have Komisarek-itis but I must confess a desire to see how he would have done with another dman. The only time he's been exposed defensively that I can recall is with Mike. I'm sure Mike is not all to blame but when Gardiner played with others, I didn't see the flaws.
All the Leafs dman play even strength. Consider who we have that has decent NHL experience on the PP & PK:
Phaneuf (& PK/defence hasn't been his strong suit)
Gunnarsson (3 yr - maybe limited in both PP & PK though he's played well with Schenn on the PK in the past)
That's effectively it. Franson, Liles (& Gardiner) are PP experienced. Komisarek & Schenn are really PK - not PP guys.
Maybe we've had that situation in the past but I don't recall it as polarized as we seem to be this season. So I'd welcome Gardiner becoming a more well rounded dman if he's able. The AHL is the place for that development to take place.
Britishbulldog said:
I doubt two way contracts affect the Leafs thinking. It's small change to them.
It would depend on who gets exposed but I wouldn't push hard for Frattin if I thought we were going to lose decent depth on waivers. If Kadri goes to the AHL for conditioning, to keep Frattin, they'd probably have to expose Rosehill (or put Orr on the IR if he's still got issues such that they can't play him). Depending on Orr's prognosis, I may well risk Rosehill on waivers to keep Frattin.
BlueWhiteBlood
New member
Sorry for quoting without your name cw, the forum is giving me difficulties this evening.
Anyway, I'm basically going with what Wilson himself has said. He mentioned that he envisioned Lombardi lining up beside Bozak on the left side. I think his thinking is that Bozak will take the draws. I expect Bozak's numbers on the face-off to increase, as I believe he has done better and is capable of a lot better numbers than he's shown in these two games.
If there is any way that Frattin can be kept, obviously I'm all for it, as he is the most NHL ready of the rookies we have on the team right now IMO. So how this plays out is anyone's guess I suppose, it usually comes down to what Wilson wants and he's said good things about all of Kadri, Bozak and Frattin, but maybe less about Frattin in a direct sense. He's answered questions when he's asked, but I think he has a thing for Kadri and Bozak, much like he did with Mitchell.
That's just how I see it panning out, based on numbers and what I've read into what Wilson has said since camp opened and the season began. Maybe it really relys on Burke and he just needs to find that trade to promote a few guys to make things work, but he's in a pickle as he needs either a big trade where a few guys leave for one good one, a two for one deal, or a deal that receives a pick back, otherwise, it's waivers and trips to the Marlies for the young guys IMO.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/article/1067709--change-is-afoot-for-the-undefeated-maple-leafs
... defenceman Cody Franson will also get his first taste of action when the Leafs play their third game on Saturday against Calgary.
?Most likely he?s getting an opportunity against Calgary,? Leafs coach Ron Wilson said of Franson, a healthy scratch for two games. ?Not going to keep him on the bench long.?
There was no indication who would be removed from the lineup. It?s likely the Leafs could bench their enforcers, Colton Orr and Jay Rosehill with MacArthur?s return.
Rookie Jake Gardiner would be a likely candidate for a night in the press box among blue liners.
Also, there?s speculation forward Nazem Kadri could be sent to the AHL Marlies on a conditioning assignment.
....
Tim Connolly, Kadri, Orr and Rosehill skated as the extras as MacArthur returned to the team after missing Monday?s drills with a minor injury.
MacArthur returned to his spot on a line with Mikhail Grabovski and Nik Kulemin.
Matt Frattin dropped to the third line with Matthew Lombardi and Colby Armstrong.
David Steckel, Philippe Dupuis and Mike Brown formed the fourth line.
The line of Tyler Bozak, Phil Kessel and Joffrey Lupul remained unchanged.
If there are no injuries in practice this week (ie Connolly doesn't stub his toe
), I think based on that report:
- the press box briefly or Marlies for Jake.
- Kadri to the AHL at the end of the week for reconditioning (2nd time I've seen it suggested in the media)
is now very likely.
If Calgary dresses
Pierre-Luc Letourneau-Leblond
http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/1177
and Tim Jackman
http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/1748
one of Rosehill or Orr may have to dress.
What they'll do at center has to remain a question until Connolly is able to practice with the team.
CONNOLLY UNLIKELY FOR SATURDAY
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=377868
It is looking less and less likely that Toronto Maple Leafs centre Tim Connolly will be ready to go when the team takes on Calgary this Saturday.
Connolly, who has been recovering from an upper-body injury suffered two weeks ago, left practice on Tuesday after just 15 minutes. He had made it through approximately 45 minutes on Monday and has yet to engage in physical contact.
... defenceman Cody Franson will also get his first taste of action when the Leafs play their third game on Saturday against Calgary.
?Most likely he?s getting an opportunity against Calgary,? Leafs coach Ron Wilson said of Franson, a healthy scratch for two games. ?Not going to keep him on the bench long.?
There was no indication who would be removed from the lineup. It?s likely the Leafs could bench their enforcers, Colton Orr and Jay Rosehill with MacArthur?s return.
Rookie Jake Gardiner would be a likely candidate for a night in the press box among blue liners.
Also, there?s speculation forward Nazem Kadri could be sent to the AHL Marlies on a conditioning assignment.
....
Tim Connolly, Kadri, Orr and Rosehill skated as the extras as MacArthur returned to the team after missing Monday?s drills with a minor injury.
MacArthur returned to his spot on a line with Mikhail Grabovski and Nik Kulemin.
Matt Frattin dropped to the third line with Matthew Lombardi and Colby Armstrong.
David Steckel, Philippe Dupuis and Mike Brown formed the fourth line.
The line of Tyler Bozak, Phil Kessel and Joffrey Lupul remained unchanged.
If there are no injuries in practice this week (ie Connolly doesn't stub his toe
), I think based on that report:- the press box briefly or Marlies for Jake.
- Kadri to the AHL at the end of the week for reconditioning (2nd time I've seen it suggested in the media)
is now very likely.
If Calgary dresses
Pierre-Luc Letourneau-Leblond
http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/1177
and Tim Jackman
http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/1748
one of Rosehill or Orr may have to dress.
What they'll do at center has to remain a question until Connolly is able to practice with the team.
CONNOLLY UNLIKELY FOR SATURDAY
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=377868
It is looking less and less likely that Toronto Maple Leafs centre Tim Connolly will be ready to go when the team takes on Calgary this Saturday.
Connolly, who has been recovering from an upper-body injury suffered two weeks ago, left practice on Tuesday after just 15 minutes. He had made it through approximately 45 minutes on Monday and has yet to engage in physical contact.
Saint Nik said:
When discussing Connolly, Pierre hinted on the Team last week that 'there is a difference between playing with pain and playing injured.'
I think he has that Pascal Leclaire syndrom. The "I have to be 110% for me to go out there." That ability to want to play every night regardless or how you feel.
Just read Mirtle's latest tweet- which gives updates from practise- and it said Connolly skated 15 min today and then left. He is "doubtful" for saturday.
I don't get it. Either this injury is significantly more concerning then they are letting on or he is a wuss. Considering he hasn't played for 2 weeks, today is only Tuesday and they are already likely ruling him out for Sat, it's either he is really injured or he cant play through pain.
I don't get it. Either this injury is significantly more concerning then they are letting on or he is a wuss. Considering he hasn't played for 2 weeks, today is only Tuesday and they are already likely ruling him out for Sat, it's either he is really injured or he cant play through pain.
bustaheims
Active member
Saint Nik said:
I guess it kind of depends on where he's injured. I mean, if it's a shoulder or a wrist thing and the pain is so severe that it limits the strength he can put into moving the puck and such, do we really want him playing, knowing that he's likely to be almost completely ineffective? I know I wouldn't. Without knowing the details, I'm not sure I can make much of a judgement either way.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Active member
I think he has another concussion.
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