Luke Schenn Traded to Flyers for JVR!!!

[Kin]

I'm still rubbing Burke's feet.

Well, at least it's his feet this time.

 

[TML fan]

Should we replace "go leafs go" with "USA! USA!" as the team chant?

 

[princedpw]

I haven't seen it mentioned yet in this thread but one thing that struck me about Schenn is/was how absolutely terrible his shot from the point is/was.

Not sure I've seen something that bad at the NHL level.....ever.

That's not a bad observation but it probably just means that Schenn won't ever be a great pp point producer.  The make-it-or-break-it aspect of Luke's game involves his defensive play.  (His overall even strength offensive play already seems to be more than adequate in a role as a top 4 defenseman: ~20-25 even strength points is actually quite remarkable given his icetime).

 

[Etiam Vultus]

I'm not exactly pleased with this deal, pretty meh, doesn't solve anything. While you could argue JVR has higher upside, he also has far more question marks than Schenn, who could still develop into a stud shutdown guy.

All I can say right now is that if JVR coming spells the end for Kulemin it's a big, big mistake.

I'm hoping this deal has nothing to do with Kulemin.  IMHO, Kulemin's our best defensive winger. I dont think JVR is going to supplant Kulemin in that respect.

I think that Kulemin was miscast as a second line player.  He should be playing on a shut-down third line that plays against the other team's top line and can still generate some offense.

 

[Jolly good show chaps]

Evening chaps. What is JVR's cap hit v Schenn's?

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I haven't seen it mentioned yet in this thread but one thing that struck me about Schenn is/was how absolutely terrible his shot from the point is/was.

Not sure I've seen something that bad at the NHL level.....ever.

I've always felt it was because he seems to play with a longer stick than is suitable for his height.  It seems to me he elects to play with a longer stick for defensive advantage, but at the expense of the shot.

I was always a defensive defenseman, and I always elected to use a longer stick than my height warranted.  Defensively, it was a big help, but my shot was always weak and awful, very much the beer league version of Schenn's.  One day, I started using the standard length of stick and my shot improved instantly and markedly.

 

[princedpw]

I'm not exactly pleased with this deal, pretty meh, doesn't solve anything. While you could argue JVR has higher upside, he also has far more question marks than Schenn, who could still develop into a stud shutdown guy.

All I can say right now is that if JVR coming spells the end for Kulemin it's a big, big mistake.

I'm hoping this deal has nothing to do with Kulemin.  IMHO, Kulemin's our best defensive winger. I dont think JVR is going to supplant Kulemin in that respect.

I think that Kulemin was miscast as a second line player.  He should be playing on a shut-down third line that plays against the other team's top line and can still generate some offense.

I think Grabbo's line was that 2-way shut down line.

 

[Sudafederov]

I haven't seen it mentioned yet in this thread but one thing that struck me about Schenn is/was how absolutely terrible his shot from the point is/was.

Not sure I've seen something that bad at the NHL level.....ever.

That's not a bad observation but it probably just means that Schenn won't ever be a great pp point producer.  The make-it-or-break-it aspect of Luke's game involves his defensive play.  (His overall even strength offensive play already seems to be more than adequate in a role as a top 4 defenseman: ~20-25 even strength points is actually quite remarkable given his icetime).

Very true.  He didn't have a very good slapshot when he came into the league. 

I recall reading articles a couple of years ago about how he took it upon himself to stay long after practice to work on it.  He was well aware of it.

 

[slapshot]

I'm good with this deal. Two years ago in the playoffs, talk was JVR was going to have a break out for sure as the talent was clearly there. I think the only reason why it didn't happen was a combination of injuries and being stuck behind Giroux and Briere.
Make no mistake about it, Burke didn't do this deal to stick JVR on left wing, he'll play center for sure on the top line. Bozak will shift to third, which will strengthen that line too. Last year in Camp, Bozak, Armstrong and Kadri had great chemistry. I doubt that will be the line this time out, but you never know.
I have a strong hunch Matt Frattin is going to have a break out year, and will find his way in the top six.
If the Leafs can sign Justin Schultz that's an upgrade on Schenn. Wish him well, just not against the Leafs.

 

[Capn_Crunch]

Evening chaps. What is JVR's cap hit v Schenn's?

Not that big of a difference

Schenn is 3.6 and JVR is 4.25 per

 

[LeafsInSeven]

It's amazing how much better Luke Schenn has become within the media since this trade was announced.

I actually think this is a much less significant deal than it first appears. Schenn has been stuck in development limbo as a robotic, yet rugged defender who's adept at firing wrist shots in the shins of the opposition. The Leafs will miss his hits and unfortunately little else as was once hoped. JVR is probably damaged goods that the Flyers have been hoping to move after they jumped the gun on that generous long term deal. The Leafs need upgrades up front so hoping the JVR can turn things around and realize his potential in place of Schenn seems a sensible risk to take.

 

[LeafsInSeven]

I haven't seen it mentioned yet in this thread but one thing that struck me about Schenn is/was how absolutely terrible his shot from the point is/was.

Not sure I've seen something that bad at the NHL level.....ever.

I've always felt it was because he seems to play with a longer stick than is suitable for his height.  It seems to me he elects to play with a longer stick for defensive advantage, but at the expense of the shot.

I was always a defensive defenseman, and I always elected to use a longer stick than my height warranted.  Defensively, it was a big help, but my shot was always weak and awful, very much the beer league version of Schenn's.  One day, I started using the standard length of stick and my shot improved instantly and markedly.

The problem with Schenn's shot is that he takes an eternity to release it. He lacks the hands and agility to get what is actually a fairly hard shot off against professional opponents. That has not improved in his 4 years in the NHL.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle

Van Riemsdyk said he has played with Gardiner, Brown and Kessel's brother so he knows a few of the Leafs.

13m James Mirtle James Mirtle ‏@mirtle

JVR says he "thinks the world of Holmgren and doesn't have anything bad to say about him."
 
33m James Mirtle James Mirtle ‏@mirtle

Van Riemsdyk: "To go to a place like Toronto is unbelievably exciting for me... It's basically like playing for the NY Yankees of the NHL."

 

[Etiam Vultus]

I'm not exactly pleased with this deal, pretty meh, doesn't solve anything. While you could argue JVR has higher upside, he also has far more question marks than Schenn, who could still develop into a stud shutdown guy.

All I can say right now is that if JVR coming spells the end for Kulemin it's a big, big mistake.

I'm hoping this deal has nothing to do with Kulemin.  IMHO, Kulemin's our best defensive winger. I dont think JVR is going to supplant Kulemin in that respect.

I think that Kulemin was miscast as a second line player.  He should be playing on a shut-down third line that plays against the other team's top line and can still generate some offense.

I think Grabbo's line was that 2-way shut down line.

I saw Grabbo's line was a second line.  IMO Grabbo is too small to be an effective shut down centre, particularly in the playoffs. 

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle

Burke says JVR's injury is part of the reason this deal didn't get done during the season.

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle

Burke says he thinks of JVR playing as a winger but that the coaching staff may try him as a centre.

 

[lc9]

This is a good trade for the leafs.  Schenn is a pylon out there and we needed a big skilled forward.

Love this deal.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Random positive collection of thoughts on JVR:

Van Riemsdyk, unlike Schenn, however, is a positive possession player, with a 5.8 Corsi rate over 43 games last season, scoring 11 goals. He also faced very tough competition, a .816 Corsi Rel QoC. He hovered about even over lesser competition last season.

Schenn's possession rates were brutal last year and he was likely mis-cast as a defensive defenceman. There are all the tools for a very good NHL defenceman there, but he worked himself into an unfortunate situation by playing poorly for three of his four seasons. It's very unfortunate that the Maple Leafs rushed him to the NHL, and then signed him to that deal, but he has a chance to live up to his potential in a different place.

http://theleafsnation.com/2012/6/23/james-van-riemsdyk-traded-to-leafs-for-luke-schenn

As a No. 2 overall pick, James van Riemsdyk's development has been heavily scrutinized over the years. After last year's playoff run, people had very high hopes for him, and most of the comments I hear this year are from people who are disappointed that he hasn't had a 70-plus point breakout superstar season.

That's a shame, because he has quietly taken a very nice step forwards in just about every measure.

At 5-on-5, last year he averaged 9.0 shots on goal per 60 minutes played; this year he's up to 11.0 SOG/60. That's a 22 percent increase, which is very good -- even among young, improving forwards, not many players increase their shot rate that much in a single year.

...

This year, van Riemsdyk is taking on somewhat tougher competition (his Corsi Rel QoC is up from 0.663 to 0.789). He is doing it with weaker linemates -- no offense to Wayne Simmonds or Jakub Voracek, but last year van Riemsdyk's most common linemates were Mike Richards, Jeff Carter and Claude Giroux.

And yet despite those added challenges, if van Riemsdyk were getting the same luck on his own shots as he had last year, his goal-scoring rate would be up by about 20-25 percent. If he were getting the same luck on his teammates' shots as he had last year, his assist rate might be up by 40-50 percent.

That would put him on pace for something like 29 goals and 60 points over an 82-game season, which certainly shouldn't be a disappointment -- in fact, it's awfully good for someone who's only playing 15:20 per game.

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2012/2/29/2831087/james-van-riemsdyk-philadelphia-flyers

Luke Schenn's Corsi Relative QualComp: -0.154, worse than D Mike Komisarek. JvR? +0.816. Second best F for Flyers last year(43 GP).

Luke Schenn stats: faced ~2nd/3rd pair competition this year, had worst Corsi of any Toronto defenseman.

 

[Boston Leaf]

This is a good trade for the leafs.  Schenn is a pylon out there and we needed a big skilled forward.

Love this deal.

Agreed all around. While Schenn seemed like a nice guy.. He is sucha  slow and bad skater. A healthy scratch some nights.. number 5 dman.. Good riddance.. Not time for him

 

[slapshot]

A couple of interesting items I came across.

Brayden Schenn's reaction on twitter, while thrilled with his brother arriving, talked first about really missing JVR whom he described as a "great guy."

Second in the Canuck forums, their fans are 1) lamenting the deal, thinking Schenn might have been coming to them in a Luongo deal 2) thinking they will now get Gardiner instead (they must be on crack, one of their fans even straightened them out on that one) 3) wishing the Leafs would flip JVR for Luongo...cracked again.

 

[PG]

I have always had concerns about how much Schenn has regressed. It's one thing to be a young player and have your development stall, it's quite another thing when your development goes backwards.

This past season I would say he was easily their worst d-man, and that's saying a lot considering this team also employs Mike Komisarek.

IMO, Schenn's age and draft position are what help people gloss over the fact that he's not very good. Holding out hope, I guess.

Having said that, not too crazy about a player with JVR's injury history. I wonder if this is the start of Burke swinging for the fences in what is likely (hopefully) his last year as GM of the Leafs?