Mitch Marner: what now?
- Thread starter CarltonTheBear
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Guilt Trip
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If the Leafs are willing to walk away from Marner, I'd be disappointed if Dubas doesn't talk to some agents to get an idea of what they're looking for.Frank E said:
Guilt Trip
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It could also set up a back up plan should things go south with Marner. If Dubas isn't/hasn't he's not doing his job.Zee said:
Pierre LeBrun was on Overdrive just now and said basically that while Marner is within his rights to do what he's doing, he's also handcuffing the Leafs in what they can do. Says the Leafs have gotten calls but can't do anything until Marner gets done. Never really thought too much about that angle but he's right.
Kin
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I don't really understand how those sorts of conversations would go. Typically when Free Agents talk to a team they want to be wooed and presented with specific amounts, not "Hey man, we're kind of interested in you as a back-up plan in case Marner doesn't work out. We won't offer you anything but maybe hang on in case we decide to later?" isn't much of a pitch.
Heroic Shrimp
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bustaheims said:
Ah! I totally missed that crucial "no" in the statement.
Kin
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Bates said:
If you're the agent of one of these guys why would you answer that with anything other than "What are you offering?" or "Are you looking to make an offer?". Even still, say you get an answer, do you just hang up? Say you'll think about it?
These guys are elite free agents. They typically need to be sold on a place. Screwing around without making an offer isn't going to appeal to any of them and you won't do yourself any favours in dealing with agents if you're just wasting their time.
Kin
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It's really not a two way street. John Tavares didn't have to make a pitch to anyone. He didn't have to outline what he wanted moneywise. He was perfectly able to let teams bid against themselves for his services as an in-demand free agent. If a team wants a high profile free agent they have to dive in with two feet or they'll be rightly dismissed as not being interested.
RFAs probably aren't getting that many calls because the market is so historically quiet. If they are getting calls it's going to be from teams who are serious about making offers as opposed to coyly hinting around at potentially making an offer in the future. Again, if the agents do reply with what their player is looking for in an offer sheet, the Leafs would have to actually respond with an offer or defer to some vague notion of potentially making a future offer. That's not a meeting that any agent would take seriously.
RFAs probably aren't getting that many calls because the market is so historically quiet. If they are getting calls it's going to be from teams who are serious about making offers as opposed to coyly hinting around at potentially making an offer in the future. Again, if the agents do reply with what their player is looking for in an offer sheet, the Leafs would have to actually respond with an offer or defer to some vague notion of potentially making a future offer. That's not a meeting that any agent would take seriously.
Nik the Trik said:
Tavares is not really a comparison as RFA you have to pay salary but also give up compensation and team can just say ok and you wasted your time. I would still bet that Tavares agent took a dozen calls about interest and cost. To think only 2 or 3 teams talked to Tavare's agent is realky kinda silly. But hey I'll play your game. Dubas pitch: world class city with amazing fan base and you will be replacing Marner, who we are moving on from, riding shotgun for Tavares. Now how much and for how long are you looking for?
Guilt Trip
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Leafs didn't discuss money until after JT chose the Leafs. My guess is they knew pretty much what he wanted ballpark, before the pitch. These RFA's will be the same. Nothing wrong with asking what are you looking for. Apparently Aho's ask is 9.5 mill over 6. That didn't come from the team.
Kin
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Ok? I didn't say he did. I said Tavares would be more busy than a RFA.Bates said:
And you're missing the entire point here. I'm sure Tavares took a lot of calls. But Tavares, as a sought after free agent, was not obligated to entertain offers from teams he didn't like or he didn't think were sufficiently interested. We know for a fact that he dismissed Montreal's interest without even taking a meeting.
I'm sure his agent did field a lot of calls, what I'm equally sure of is that if the teams who were calling were coy about whether or not they were actually committed to making an offer that they were dismissed as contenders pretty quickly.
Bates said:
See, again, you've missed the point entirely. I didn't ask for Dubas' pitch but, ok, let's say that pitch works and you've convinced Rantanen's agent that his client is the guy the Leafs are super committed to signing. The agent then gives the Leafs his number/term and the interest is reciprocated. Then he says "Great, so if you're definitely moving on from Marner and really interested in my client you're prepared to make that an official offer sheet, right? Lets put pen to paper."
What do the Leafs do then if they're only talking to Rantanen's agent as a contingency if things don't work out with Marner? If the Leafs are all then "Uh gosh, jeez, we'll maybe have to think it over and get back to you" they'll be easily and quickly dismissed as a stalking horse whose interest was predicated on a straight up lie.
That's the Tavares comparison. His agent would have taken lots of calls but the teams who made any actual progress were teams that were expressing genuine, full throated interest in signing him, not teams that were just playing footsie with him in case their #1 option didn't work out.
Kin
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Guilt Trip said:
There's nothing wrong with it but it's not likely to be seen as the first step in a really committed pursuit either. Like you said, when the Leafs went after Tavares they didn't nonchalantly ask him what he was looking for and then hem and haw as to whether or not they'd make him an offer.
If I were Dubas, I wouldn?t be calling about any other teams? guys (until someone makes a real run at Marner) because I definitely don?t want other teams calling about my guy. I would not want anyone to stir the normally completely dormant RFA market.
If I call about Rantanen then Rantanen is definitely going to tell Colorado?s GM because he?s going to use my call as leverage. But then the Colorado GM is immediately going to call Marner. And Marner is going to use that against me. I think Dubas wants things quiet. He doesn?t want to spook anyone. It?s kinda like peace via mutually assured destruction in case anyone makes the first move.
It?s the kind of thing that once the dam bursts, it could really burst. And if it didn?t involve Marner, it would be hilarious to watch. I mean if somebody offer-sheeted Marner for 13M, if I?m Dubas, I 100% turn around and offersheet Point for 10.5. Tampa for sure matches, (or we win massively if they don?t) but at least you prevent a Tampa discount. Then I offersheet Tkachuck and then Rantanen. And maybe I threaten Carolina for aho to get them to trade me Pesce for a couple of my surplus firsts.
If I call about Rantanen then Rantanen is definitely going to tell Colorado?s GM because he?s going to use my call as leverage. But then the Colorado GM is immediately going to call Marner. And Marner is going to use that against me. I think Dubas wants things quiet. He doesn?t want to spook anyone. It?s kinda like peace via mutually assured destruction in case anyone makes the first move.
It?s the kind of thing that once the dam bursts, it could really burst. And if it didn?t involve Marner, it would be hilarious to watch. I mean if somebody offer-sheeted Marner for 13M, if I?m Dubas, I 100% turn around and offersheet Point for 10.5. Tampa for sure matches, (or we win massively if they don?t) but at least you prevent a Tampa discount. Then I offersheet Tkachuck and then Rantanen. And maybe I threaten Carolina for aho to get them to trade me Pesce for a couple of my surplus firsts.
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