Mitch Marner: what now?

[Guilt Trip]

Some people think they know more then the rest of us.  :

Haha, no kidding.

So yesterday on Leaf's Lunch Lebrun was saying that many agents hate the talk period as every team that is looking for a winger, his example, phones every winger available and goes through the process to see what it would take and then makes a pitch to the one or two that best suits them. I would like to believe him but Nik told me this doesn't happen as agents only talk to folks with serious offers??? I'm back to whete we started, Dubas should be talking to every agent that has a player available on Monday.

Even if it doesn't come to an RFA contract offer it could lead to a team working out a trade for said RFA since that's generally more "acceptable" to the old boys club. So yes, calling everyone to see where they're at is valuable.

That's how it worked when Burke traded for Kessel. He told Boston he'd offer sheet him but would prefer a trade.

 

[Zee]

Some people think they know more then the rest of us.  :

Haha, no kidding.

So yesterday on Leaf's Lunch Lebrun was saying that many agents hate the talk period as every team that is looking for a winger, his example, phones every winger available and goes through the process to see what it would take and then makes a pitch to the one or two that best suits them. I would like to believe him but Nik told me this doesn't happen as agents only talk to folks with serious offers??? I'm back to whete we started, Dubas should be talking to every agent that has a player available on Monday.

Even if it doesn't come to an RFA contract offer it could lead to a team working out a trade for said RFA since that's generally more "acceptable" to the old boys club. So yes, calling everyone to see where they're at is valuable.

That's how it worked when Burke traded for Kessel. He told Boston he'd offer sheet him but would prefer a trade.

That worked out extremely well for the Bruins, but I think it was hot air from Burke.  He would have never presented an offer sheet after he was so vocal about Lowe doing it to him.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Some people think they know more then the rest of us.  :

Haha, no kidding.

So yesterday on Leaf's Lunch Lebrun was saying that many agents hate the talk period as every team that is looking for a winger, his example, phones every winger available and goes through the process to see what it would take and then makes a pitch to the one or two that best suits them. I would like to believe him but Nik told me this doesn't happen as agents only talk to folks with serious offers??? I'm back to whete we started, Dubas should be talking to every agent that has a player available on Monday.

Even if it doesn't come to an RFA contract offer it could lead to a team working out a trade for said RFA since that's generally more "acceptable" to the old boys club. So yes, calling everyone to see where they're at is valuable.

That's how it worked when Burke traded for Kessel. He told Boston he'd offer sheet him but would prefer a trade.

That worked out extremely well for the Bruins, but I think it was hot air from Burke.  He would have never presented an offer sheet after he was so vocal about Lowe doing it to him.

No he probably wouldn't have but I'll give him credit, he was very upfront with Boston about it from the start. And it worked out ok for them but they traded both guys away for crap and the 3rd guy Jared Knight, never played an NHL game.

 

[Kin]

I would like to believe him but Nik told me this doesn't happen as agents only talk to folks with serious offers???

I'm really torn between two possibilities here. Either you're so desperate to think you've won an argument that you're willing to so badly misrepresent simple things I said or you're just genuinely unable to understand basic concepts.

I tend not to be cynical though so I lean towards the latter.

 

[Kin]

That worked out extremely well for the Bruins, but I think it was hot air from Burke.  He would have never presented an offer sheet after he was so vocal about Lowe doing it to him.

Burke has always said that his problem was that Lowe wasn't upfront with him about it and didn't tell him about his plan to present the offer sheet, not that he didn't like offer sheets or thought any offer of one was somehow playing dirty.

 

[Bates]

Or it could go , what are you looking for in term and length of contract.

If you're the agent of one of these guys why would you answer that with anything other than "What are you offering?" or "Are you looking to make an offer?". Even still, say you get an answer, do you just hang up? Say you'll think about it?

These guys are elite free agents. They typically need to be sold on a place. Screwing around without making an offer isn't going to appeal to any of them and you won't do yourself any favours in dealing with agents if you're just wasting their time.

Lebrun and agents don't agree.

 

[Bates]

Sorry Nik you can attempt to twist whatever way you want these agents are talking calls from most GM's and they won't just be getting full pitches.  Most will be initial  inquiries to see if there is a fit and possible ask. Larger pitch will come later if at all. And UFA vs RFA is still not a good comparable.

 

[Kin]

Lebrun and agents don't agree.

Right, so you find somewhere that I literally said that Agents don't talk to teams that aren't making serious offers or be revealed as the bald-faced desperate liar that you are.

What I said was that not making serious offers will have agents generally be dismissive of teams calling them and what Lebrun supposedly said, if I'm going to believe someone who's clearly so on board with lying and misrepresenting what other people say, emphatically backs that. They hate getting calls from teams during this period because they aren't making serious offers. That lines up perfectly with what I've been saying.

 

[Bates]

I don't really understand how those sorts of conversations would go. Typically when Free Agents talk to a team they want to be wooed and presented with specific amounts, not "Hey man, we're kind of interested in you as a back-up plan in case Marner doesn't work out. We won't offer you anything but maybe hang on in case we decide to later?" isn't much of a pitch.

Unless you think most team's are calling 10 players with a woo plan??

 

[Bates]

Lebrun and agents don't agree.

Right, so you find somewhere that I literally said that Agents don't talk to teams that aren't making serious offers or be revealed as the bald-faced desperate liar that you are.

What I said was that not making serious offers will have agents generally be dismissive of teams calling them and what Lebrun supposedly said, if I'm going to believe someone who's clearly so on board with lying and misrepresenting what other people say, emphatically backs that. They hate getting calls from teams during this period because they aren't making serious offers. That lines up perfectly with what I've been saying.

I think you left out the part about agents having those conversation. That's kinda important in this conversation.

 

[Kin]

Unless you think most team's are calling 10 players with a woo plan??

Again, find something where I said agents don't talk to teams who aren't making a serious pitch, or acknowledge what a desperate liar you are.

 

[Bates]

Unless you think most team's are calling 10 players with a woo plan??

Again, find something where I said agents don't talk to teams who aren't making a serious pitch, or be acknowledged as the desperate liar you are.

Several pages into this now with multiple twists rather than just say you were wrong a long ways back hey.

 

[Kin]

I think you left out the part about agents having those conversation.

I didn't. I said repeatedly that agents would be dismissive of that. That directly implies that those things would have taken place, you desperate liar.

 

[Bates]

I think you left out the part about agents having those conversation.

I didn't. I said repeatedly that agents would be dismissive of that. That directly implies that those things would have taken place, you desperate liar.

No lies Nik, just go back and read the conversation. Unless of course the things you write are just hypothetical. 

 

[Kin]

No lies Nik, just go back and read the conversation.

It's a simple task, or it would be for someone of adult intelligence. If I said that agents don't talk to teams who aren't making serious offers, show me. Otherwise, you are a complete and total liar.

 

[Bates]

Or it could go , what are you looking for in term and length of contract.

If you're the agent of one of these guys why would you answer that with anything other than "What are you offering?" or "Are you looking to make an offer?". Even still, say you get an answer, do you just hang up? Say you'll think about it?

These guys are elite free agents. They typically need to be sold on a place. Screwing around without making an offer isn't going to appeal to any of them and you won't do yourself any favours in dealing with agents if you're just wasting their time.

Right here

 

[Bates]

It's really not a two way street. John Tavares didn't have to make a pitch to anyone. He didn't have to outline what he wanted moneywise. He was perfectly able to let teams bid against themselves for his services as an in-demand free agent. If a team wants a high profile free agent they have to dive in with two feet or they'll be rightly dismissed as not being interested.

RFAs probably aren't getting that many calls because the market is so historically quiet. If they are getting calls it's going to be from teams who are serious about making offers as opposed to coyly hinting around at potentially making an offer in the future. Again, if the agents do reply with what their player is looking for in an offer sheet, the Leafs would have to actually respond with an offer or defer to some vague notion of potentially making a future offer. That's not a meeting that any agent would take seriously.

And here, no calls and onky from serious teams.

 

[Kin]

Right here

There's nothing in there saying that, you transparent liar.

 

[Kin]

It's really not a two way street. John Tavares didn't have to make a pitch to anyone. He didn't have to outline what he wanted moneywise. He was perfectly able to let teams bid against themselves for his services as an in-demand free agent. If a team wants a high profile free agent they have to dive in with two feet or they'll be rightly dismissed as not being interested.

RFAs probably aren't getting that many calls because the market is so historically quiet. If they are getting calls it's going to be from teams who are serious about making offers as opposed to coyly hinting around at potentially making an offer in the future. Again, if the agents do reply with what their player is looking for in an offer sheet, the Leafs would have to actually respond with an offer or defer to some vague notion of potentially making a future offer. That's not a meeting that any agent would take seriously.

And here, no calls and onky from serious teams.

Highlighted the relevant section, for someone who clearly needs help with basic reading comprehension. Lebrun did not say he was talking about offer sheets.

 

[Bates]

Right here

There's nothing in there saying that, you transparent liar.

Your gonna need to get a little better before I get bullied out. You were out to lunch on how the RFA period goes and it would be easier to just say that. But that's not Nik's way so here we are. Semantics be damned