Mitch Marner: what now?

[Strangelove]

I still can't figure out what the thinking is for people who think this contract issue is the result of Marner and his reps being uniquely unreasonable or unwilling to negotiate. If that's the case, how do they explain every other prominent RFA still being unsigned?

The other RFAs are likely all waiting for Toronto to overpay on another RFA (following the pretty awful Matthews contract).

 

[Kin]

Mitch is a talented, largely one dimensional RFA with a good season (followed by a bad playoffs) under his belt.

He scored almost as many ES goals as Sid Crosby last year while also killing penalties. Which dimension is his one dimension?

 

[Kin]

The other RFAs are likely all waiting for Toronto to overpay on another RFA (following the pretty awful Matthews contract).

So they want a contract that's equally unreasonable in relation to Marner's contract? Other teams aren't going to be bound by Marner's contract so why wait for it? If those agents won't sign a deal unless it compares favourably with Marner's supposedly incredibly unreasonable deal how aren't they being equally unreasonable?

 

[nutman]

8.5 per for 6-8yrs or sit him , and that is the bottom line.

 

[louisstamos]

This thread is a reminder on why the majority of us (myself included) would be terrible GMs.  We get so emotionally invested in the team, it's hard to remember that it's a business.  Playing hardball is fine, but ultimatums are not good for business.

Mitch is a premiere player and deserves to be paid as such.  I'm sure in the end it will all work out.

 

[Highlander]

I still can't figure out what the thinking is for people who think this contract issue is the result of Marner and his reps being uniquely unreasonable or unwilling to negotiate. If that's the case, how do they explain every other prominent RFA still being unsigned?

Because they know that Mitch will set the new line in the sand that they will all bounce off.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

A $9 million AAV over three years for any player is unprecedented in the salary cap era. The most expensive three-year deal given to a player with Marner?s status (first-time RFA) belongs to Marian Gaborik, who signed a three-year deal worth $6,333,333 annually.

Gaborik's deal, as a % of thecap, works out to 13.3 million now.

It's definitely a bad example to give for the purposes of the article, but there were a ton of contracts with weird cap % deals immediately after the lockout. Brad Richards got the full 20% on a 5-year deal. McCabe, Havlat, Jokinen, Jovanovski, Kovalchuk, Elias all got 13% or higher, which would all be $10mil+ deals today. So the insanely small ceiling back then make comparing those percentages to today's contracts tricky.

Over the past 10 years though from what I can find the highest 3-year deal given to player immediately after his ELC might actually be the Werenski contract that was just signed, $5mil AAV. If you expand the definition of a bridge to a 2 or 4 year deal as well then I believe Panarin (2 years/$6mil AAV) and Meier (4 years/$6mil) take the lead.

 

[Bullfrog]

I still can't figure out what the thinking is for people who think this contract issue is the result of Marner and his reps being uniquely unreasonable or unwilling to negotiate. If that's the case, how do they explain every other prominent RFA still being unsigned?

Because they know that Mitch will set the new line in the sand that they will all bounce off.

A couple of weekends ago a drew a beautiful line in the sand of a beach on Lake Superior. Then a wave rushed up and wiped it away. I realized then, how irrelevant lines in the sand are, particularly when there's no restrictions on where you can draw it (other than in sand obviously, because otherwise it'd be a line in the cookie dough, snow, granulated sugar or whatever other line-receiving medium you have). I also realized that maybe the stars are just pinholes in the curtain of night. Also, that it was cold, and what was I doing with my feet in Lake Superior?

 

[Highlander]

The teeter totter is starting to tip. Mitch pull the trigger on 3-4 years at 9 per...Let's get this done before my head explodes.  When that time is up we will trade you for McDavid, who will replace Auston when he heads home to be a desert Hockey God.

 

[Bender]

This thread is a reminder on why the majority of us (myself included) would be terrible GMs.  We get so emotionally invested in the team, it's hard to remember that it's a business.  Playing hardball is fine, but ultimatums are not good for business.

Mitch is a premiere player and deserves to be paid as such.  I'm sure in the end it will all work out.

There are only so many options you have. No one is saying Mitch doesn't deserve to be paid as a premiere player, it's the negotiating through the media, threatening to play in Europe and all the other shit that's gone on that's irksome, and that's just what we know. It's possible this negotiation is personal. We've heard over and over how Mitch's handlers believe Mitch has been sleighted all his life and now it seems they are using this as a platform to not just get paid as one of the best paid wingers in history, but EVEN MORE than that. At some point you have to make a decision whether he's worth paying for or if, for the sake of a more balanced roster, you make the trade and have someone else pay him more than anyone not named Connor McDavid, even though he's clearly not in the same stratosphere.

 

[Highlander]

I still can't figure out what the thinking is for people who think this contract issue is the result of Marner and his reps being uniquely unreasonable or unwilling to negotiate. If that's the case, how do they explain every other prominent RFA still being unsigned?

Because they know that Mitch will set the new line in the sand that they will all bounce off.

A couple of weekends ago a drew a beautiful line in the sand of a beach on Lake Superior. Then a wave rushed up and wiped it away. I realized then, how irrelevant lines in the sand are, particularly when there's no restrictions on where you can draw it (other than in sand obviously, because otherwise it'd be a line in the cookie dough, snow, granulated sugar or whatever other line-receiving medium you have). I also realized that maybe the stars are just pinholes in the curtain of night. Also, that it was cold, and what was I doing with my feet in Lake Superior?

They have sand in Lake Superior, man I gotta go!

 

[Bullfrog]

There are only so many options you have. No one is saying Mitch doesn't deserve to be paid as a premiere player, it's the negotiating through the media, threatening to play in Europe and all the other shit that's gone on that's irksome, and that's just what we know. ....

I know there was mention of him training in Switzerland instead of participating in training camp without a contract. Has there been threats he'll play in Europe?

And who in the world would be threatened by that? It's ludicrous to think he'd play in Europe for, what, 10-20% of what he'd earn here? (unless he goes the KHL route)

 

[Highlander]

There are only so many options you have. No one is saying Mitch doesn't deserve to be paid as a premiere player, it's the negotiating through the media, threatening to play in Europe and all the other shit that's gone on that's irksome, and that's just what we know. ....

I know there was mention of him training in Switzerland instead of participating in training camp without a contract. Has there been threats he'll play in Europe?

And who in the world would be threatened by that? It's ludicrous to think he'd play in Europe for, what, 10-20% of what he'd earn here? (unless he goes the KHL route)

If this is all Hubris, having to be the same as Austen and it's his Dad at the helm, it worries me.  I have seen it all my life and I don't want to see it happen to Mitch.  Pride does go before the fall.  As a matter of fact that scares the hell out of me.  A little humility does go a long long way.

 

[Bullfrog]

I still can't figure out what the thinking is for people who think this contract issue is the result of Marner and his reps being uniquely unreasonable or unwilling to negotiate. If that's the case, how do they explain every other prominent RFA still being unsigned?

Because they know that Mitch will set the new line in the sand that they will all bounce off.

A couple of weekends ago a drew a beautiful line in the sand of a beach on Lake Superior. Then a wave rushed up and wiped it away. I realized then, how irrelevant lines in the sand are, particularly when there's no restrictions on where you can draw it (other than in sand obviously, because otherwise it'd be a line in the cookie dough, snow, granulated sugar or whatever other line-receiving medium you have). I also realized that maybe the stars are just pinholes in the curtain of night. Also, that it was cold, and what was I doing with my feet in Lake Superior?

They have sand in Lake Superior, man I gotta go!

 

[Bullfrog]

There are only so many options you have. No one is saying Mitch doesn't deserve to be paid as a premiere player, it's the negotiating through the media, threatening to play in Europe and all the other shit that's gone on that's irksome, and that's just what we know. ....

I know there was mention of him training in Switzerland instead of participating in training camp without a contract. Has there been threats he'll play in Europe?

And who in the world would be threatened by that? It's ludicrous to think he'd play in Europe for, what, 10-20% of what he'd earn here? (unless he goes the KHL route)

If this is all Hubris, having to be the same as Austen and it's his Dad at the helm, it worries me.  I have seen it all my life and I don't want to see it happen to Mitch.  Pride does go before the fall.  As a matter of fact that scares the hell out of me.  A little humility does go a long long way.

I think it is. And I think this is all his agent. There's really be very little actually stated by either Dubas or Marner's tea. Most of what's been said is pundit conjecture. Some of it's been corraborated by others; so there's probably some truth to the numbers being stated, but I would certainly give them less weight than anything actually said by the reporters.

For all we know, Marner might have very specific instructions to his agent that he must be signed in time to play all games and the agent is just trying to squeeze out every dollar he can get (he gets his cut after all.)

 

[louisstamos]

No one is saying Mitch doesn't deserve to be paid as a premiere player

You're largely right, but there is a post above mine that suggests that either Mitch Marner take Kevin Hayes' contract or they would sit him for the year.

1) Mitch Marner is *way* better than Kevin Hayes.
2) If the team were to take such a hard line approach, and he's not signed by the start of the season, I dare say, I wouldn't consider the Leafs a Stanley Cup Contender.  Playoff team, yes, but contender, no.  With him though - absolutely.

 

[Bates]

No one is saying Mitch doesn't deserve to be paid as a premiere player

You're largely right, but there is a post above mine that suggests that either Mitch Marner take Kevin Hayes' contract or they would sit him for the year.

1) Mitch Marner is *way* better than Kevin Hayes.
2) If the team were to take such a hard line approach, and he's not signed by the start of the season, I dare say, I wouldn't consider the Leafs a Stanley Cup Contender.  Playoff team, yes, but contender, no.  With him though - absolutely.

How would you compare him to Kucherov?

 

[Bates]

If Marner has been offered $11 million for 7 years and it sounds like he might be interested in a 3 year deal at almost $2 million less how does that make financial sense? In the 3 years he would have lost $6 million. So his next deal has to make up that $6 million on top of the already offered $11 million for the next 4 years. I don't see how he wins by much if any when you consider the risk factor

 

[Highlander]

I still can't figure out what the thinking is for people who think this contract issue is the result of Marner and his reps being uniquely unreasonable or unwilling to negotiate. If that's the case, how do they explain every other prominent RFA still being unsigned?

Because they know that Mitch will set the new line in the sand that they will all bounce off.

A couple of weekends ago a drew a beautiful line in the sand of a beach on Lake Superior. Then a wave rushed up and wiped it away. I realized then, how irrelevant lines in the sand are, particularly when there's no restrictions on where you can draw it (other than in sand obviously, because otherwise it'd be a line in the cookie dough, snow, granulated sugar or whatever other line-receiving medium you have). I also realized that maybe the stars are just pinholes in the curtain of night. Also, that it was cold, and what was I doing with my feet in Lake Superior?

They have sand in Lake Superior, man I gotta go!

LOL, they have a lot of that stuff!

 

[Bates]

The Overdrive Boys might agree that the fanbase is turning on the player.