Of Nonis, Babcock & who the heck is going to be running this asylum on draft day

[Al14]

So, speaking of the draft...it's obviously a long shot, but what if the Leafs get McDavid?

How does that affect the rebuild?  He's likely to start with the team, and therefore beginning his ELC immediately.  I would think that this fast forwards the rebuild somewhat over, say, drafting Strome.

To me the biggest thing that changes is Kessel. If we get McDavid then Phil isn't going anywhere. I'd still be looking at stripping away parts like Bozak and, well, Bozak, and the idea behind being patient with our non-McDavid prospects would still be the same. But it definitely fast-forwards our rebuild quite a bit, enough so that Phil would still be a very valuable contributor to the team when we're ready to compete.

I'm not sure that "fast forwarding" the rebuild is the best idea. We want to do this right, which means develop a young group of players together over a period of years. We have a few exciting prospects but not nearly enough...so that probably means a couple of years of finishing near the bottom and getting high draft picks. Worst thing would be for McDavid and Kessel to click and score enough to mess up that plan.

If we win the lottery, ideally I'd like to see Kessel traded for another decent first rounder this year (+ whatever) if we can get it.

Of course, if Shanahan et al were to decide to keep Phil, I'd think they have a good reason for that decision. And they should have much more information available than we do as fans, so I'd support that. But I'm not convinced it wouldn't lead to another half-hearted rebuild that would leave us asking "why didn't we tear it all down" again in 5 years.

Phil is a BIG part of the core of players that have failed to get the job done.  Keeping him would be a big mistake at this point.  By the time we build a new core of players around him, he may be in serious decline.

I think we should let Phil go elsewhere now, in his prime, to see if he can have better success with a new core.

 

[Highlander]

IMHO, this is not part of the Shanaplan. Babcock will sign with the Leafs as coach and as part of a two or three man triumvirate of GM (to start)  and Nonis will be shown the door.
We need a new stamp on this team, after some of the players are moved out: Lupul, Bozak, Phanuef to name a few, we need the team of managment to instill a winning formula to what the Leafs will be and what they were such a long time ago.
If Babcock comes in on year two, its not his stamp and I have said it a million times. If he leads us to the promised lands, he then becomes part of the pantheon of great coaches along with Bowman, Arbour, Blake etc.
It seems almost irresitable. What more can he do with Motor City (except win another cup). 

 

[Al14]

IMHO, this is not part of the Shanaplan. Babcock will sign with the Leafs as coach and as part of a two or three man triumvirate of GM (to start)  and Nonis will be shown the door.
We need a new stamp on this team, after some of the players are moved out: Lupul, Bozak, Phanuef to name a few, we need the team of managment to instill a winning formula to what the Leafs will be and what they were such a long time ago.
If Babcock comes in on year two, its not his stamp and I have said it a million times. If he leads us to the promised lands, he then becomes part of the pantheon of great coaches along with Bowman, Arbour, Blake etc.
It seems almost irresitable. What more can he do with Motor City (except win another cup).

Kessel should be one of the first players sent packing.  He needs to be added to another team's core, as a complementary piece, as opposed to being the core player you build around like Burke tried with our Leafs.

As for Babcock, he's certainly a proven head coach, however, I'm not so sure he's ready to be a full time head coach and G.M.  I'd be tempted to ask him to be the head coach and an assistant G.M. to work closely with Nonis and the other assistants.

 

[Highlander]

Tend to disagree about Phil, pure snipers don't grow on trees, however if it gets us two fantastic players by draft or trade my ears are open.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

IMHO, this is not part of the Shanaplan. Babcock will sign with the Leafs as coach and as part of a two or three man triumvirate of GM (to start)  and Nonis will be shown the door.
We need a new stamp on this team, after some of the players are moved out: Lupul, Bozak, Phanuef to name a few, we need the team of managment to instill a winning formula to what the Leafs will be and what they were such a long time ago.
If Babcock comes in on year two, its not his stamp and I have said it a million times. If he leads us to the promised lands, he then becomes part of the pantheon of great coaches along with Bowman, Arbour, Blake etc.
It seems almost irresitable. What more can he do with Motor City (except win another cup).

Kessel should be one of the first players sent packing.  He needs to be added to another team's core, as a complementary piece, as opposed to being the core player you build around like Burke tried with our Leafs.

As for Babcock, he's certainly a proven head coach, however, I'm not so sure he's ready to be a full time head coach and G.M.  I'd be tempted to ask him to be the head coach and an assistant G.M. to work closely with Nonis and the other assistants.

Burke never picked up Kessel to be the core player.  He was meant to be complimentary piece, playing on Tavares' wing. 

With a new president and new AGMs, and assuming Nonis is on his way out the door, I can't imagine Shanahan/the Leafs want a GM with no experience.  I think either someone already there (Dubas?) becomes GM, or they go with someone with NHL GM experience.  Although, knowing this team Dale Hunter is the GM next season.

 

[Al14]

IMHO, this is not part of the Shanaplan. Babcock will sign with the Leafs as coach and as part of a two or three man triumvirate of GM (to start)  and Nonis will be shown the door.
We need a new stamp on this team, after some of the players are moved out: Lupul, Bozak, Phanuef to name a few, we need the team of managment to instill a winning formula to what the Leafs will be and what they were such a long time ago.
If Babcock comes in on year two, its not his stamp and I have said it a million times. If he leads us to the promised lands, he then becomes part of the pantheon of great coaches along with Bowman, Arbour, Blake etc.
It seems almost irresitable. What more can he do with Motor City (except win another cup).

Kessel should be one of the first players sent packing.  He needs to be added to another team's core, as a complementary piece, as opposed to being the core player you build around like Burke tried with our Leafs.

As for Babcock, he's certainly a proven head coach, however, I'm not so sure he's ready to be a full time head coach and G.M.  I'd be tempted to ask him to be the head coach and an assistant G.M. to work closely with Nonis and the other assistants.

Burke never picked up Kessel to be the core player.  He was meant to be complimentary piece, playing on Tavares' wing. 

With a new president and new AGMs, and assuming Nonis is on his way out the door, I can't imagine Shanahan/the Leafs want a GM with no experience.  I think either someone already there (Dubas?) becomes GM, or they go with someone with NHL GM experience.  Although, knowing this team Dale Hunter is the GM next season.

Dale Hunter might be the new JFJ Jr.  ???

 

[ZBBM]

So, what's the temp of the board on this simple question: will Nonis get fired Sunday or Monday?  I say yes.  Shanahan needs to make a clean break all the way down the line.

 

[Tigger]

So, what's the temp of the board on this simple question: will Nonis get fired Sunday or Monday?  I say yes.  Shanahan needs to make a clean break all the way down the line.

I think he'll have a job at the end of either of those days, with the Leafs no less.

 

[Kin]

So, what's the temp of the board on this simple question: will Nonis get fired Sunday or Monday?  I say yes.  Shanahan needs to make a clean break all the way down the line.

I really don't see Nonis being kept around the last few months and, seemingly, having an active hand in scouting/trades and then being fired at the end of it all. He might be relieved of his duties as GM and moved into a different role but I think if they were going to fire him outright that would have been done along with Carlyle.

 

[KW Sluggo]

So, speaking of the draft...it's obviously a long shot, but what if the Leafs get McDavid?

How does that affect the rebuild?  He's likely to start with the team, and therefore beginning his ELC immediately.  I would think that this fast forwards the rebuild somewhat over, say, drafting Strome.



To me the biggest thing that changes is Kessel. If we get McDavid then Phil isn't going anywhere. I'd still be looking at stripping away parts like Bozak and, well, Bozak, and the idea behind being patient with our non-McDavid prospects would still be the same. But it definitely fast-forwards our rebuild quite a bit, enough so that Phil would still be a very valuable contributor to the team when we're ready to compete.

Exactly.

The best part is that because the draft lottery result will be known in a week, we will know then if we have won McDavid or not and thus can plan for Kessel's departure (or not) via a trade at the draft (if not earlier). Knowing the draft lottery result might also free some trading partners among the non playoff teams who will also know where they will be drafting and will better be able to evaluate the cost of trading away their first round pick for a Kessel or a Phaneuf (one can dream, no?).

 

[KW Sluggo]

IMHO, this is not part of the Shanaplan. Babcock will sign with the Leafs as coach and as part of a two or three man triumvirate of GM (to start)  and Nonis will be shown the door.
We need a new stamp on this team, after some of the players are moved out: Lupul, Bozak, Phanuef to name a few, we need the team of managment to instill a winning formula to what the Leafs will be and what they were such a long time ago.
If Babcock comes in on year two, its not his stamp and I have said it a million times. If he leads us to the promised lands, he then becomes part of the pantheon of great coaches along with Bowman, Arbour, Blake etc.
It seems almost irresitable. What more can he do with Motor City (except win another cup).

Kessel should be one of the first players sent packing.  He needs to be added to another team's core, as a complementary piece, as opposed to being the core player you build around like Burke tried with our Leafs.

As for Babcock, he's certainly a proven head coach, however, I'm not so sure he's ready to be a full time head coach and G.M.  I'd be tempted to ask him to be the head coach and an assistant G.M. to work closely with Nonis and the other assistants.

Burke never picked up Kessel to be the core player.  He was meant to be complimentary piece, playing on Tavares' wing. 

With a new president and new AGMs, and assuming Nonis is on his way out the door, I can't imagine Shanahan/the Leafs want a GM with no experience.  I think either someone already there (Dubas?) becomes GM, or they go with someone with NHL GM experience.  Although, knowing this team Dale Hunter is the GM next season.

Dale Hunter might be the new JFJ Jr.  ???

I sincerely doubt that last observation.

First of all, JFJ was unparalleled as a failure even considering the pantheon of failed Leaf GMs.

Beyond that, Hunter comes with some experience in junior talent evaluation and was brought in for that specific purpose, not necessary to be Nonis' replacement. I believe that Hunter wants to be  GM and this current job is his way of building a resume at the NHL level. I just don't see it being with the Leafs, at least not now.

 

[slapshot]

No way Nonis is back.  I think he's still here now just because he has experience.

I don't think Babcock comes to Toronto.  What I think is more interesting is San Jose.  What if they miss the playoffs this year and there's a house cleaning?  What would you think about Doug Wilson and Todd McLellan coming on as GM and coach?  I'm starting to quietly cheer against the Sharks, just in case. 

Did you see Babcock practically have a Torts when the media asked him about the goal Howard let in last night against the Habs? Makes you wonder about how he's enjoy (note sarcasm) the Toronto market?

 

[freer]

No way Nonis is back.  I think he's still here now just because he has experience.

I don't think Babcock comes to Toronto.  What I think is more interesting is San Jose.  What if they miss the playoffs this year and there's a house cleaning?  What would you think about Doug Wilson and Todd McLellan coming on as GM and coach?  I'm starting to quietly cheer against the Sharks, just in case. 

Did you see Babcock practically have a Torts when the media asked him about the goal Howard let in last night against the Habs? Makes you wonder about how he's enjoy (note sarcasm) the Toronto market?

He is not coming to TO, so he wont have to worry about. When DET loses in the second round he will sign a extention. I could see Todd McLellan or Bylsma next season. I am concerned that Nonnis will still be here.

 

[ZBBM]

First of all, JFJ was unparalleled as a failure even considering the pantheon of failed Leaf GMs.

Nonsense.  I rank him above Burke.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

First of all, JFJ was unparalleled as a failure even considering the pantheon of failed Leaf GMs.

Nonsense.  I rank him above Burke.

How?

 

[ZBBM]

First of all, JFJ was unparalleled as a failure even considering the pantheon of failed Leaf GMs.

Nonsense.  I rank him above Burke.

How?

Better drafting and not leaving a toxic legacy of signing the wrong core players.  But you knew that would be my answer so let's not argue about it.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Glad you're not ignoring any franchise altering moves there.  Do not argue this response.

 

[rdowdall]

Glad you're not ignoring any franchise altering moves there.  Do not argue this response.

Guys, Guys, your both pretty.

And your argument over who was worse is kinda sad in the sense that you are essentially arguing over which disease would you rather have, ebola, or aids.  Both are pretty bad and I wouldn't wish them on anyone. 

 

[Highlander]

Don't know about you but I am starting to get the gut feeling that Monday there is going to be some severe bloodletting, Phaneuf is going to unload a pant load for one. And I have a sneaking suspspcion that Dave will be Nonis'ed out of  town by the Shanaplan (perhaps not right away but certainly after the season is over).

 

[bustaheims]

So, what's the temp of the board on this simple question: will Nonis get fired Sunday or Monday?  I say yes.  Shanahan needs to make a clean break all the way down the line.

Dreger seems to be under the impression that Nonis and a whoever else is leftover from the old guard could see themselves without a job by the end of next week.