Of Nonis, Babcock & who the heck is going to be running this asylum on draft day

[sickbeast]

The Leafs are so broken right now I don't even care what coach they get. It's the least of their problems.

 

[bustaheims]

I believe that is what has been reported, think I saw it in an article the other day.

It's been speculated, but not reported in the sense that anyone with any actual inside knowledge has said so.

 

[Kin]

I also think that there's quite a bit out there that indicates that money might very well be an issue. I mentioned this before but on PTS on Friday they mentioned that talk was that the deal Babcock was looking for was in the 5 year/25 million dollar range(I wouldn't use that as a source but they had some pretty legit reporters on in Stephen Brunt and Michael Grange). Then there's this from the Detroit Free Press:

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2015/05/08/mike-babcock-detroit-red-wings/26981229/

Babcock, 52, is widely considered one of the best, if not the best, coaches in the NHL. He is believed to be seeking at least $4 million per year, double his current salary. He wants to be the league's highest-paid coach (currently believed to be Chicago's Joel Quenneville, with a base salary of $2.75 million). The Wings have offered four years at $3.25 million annually.

So if Babcock could get 5 years/25 on the open market and the Wings offer is 13 million over 4, that's a huge difference. I remember in the Nathan Horton conversation people were talking about about how he'd never retire and leave money on the table. Why be so quick to assume Babcock will?

 

[Kin]

Also, the Penguins are officially out on Babcock:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=767125

 

[Tigger]

Doubt it, the Leafs are a long, long way from contending and it seems unlikely that money is the driving factor for him, Edmonton or St. Louis seem way more plausible. If Gallant wasn't well seated in Florida they could be a consideration as well.

Where did I say anything about money in that post?

You didn't but it seems the only commodity that the Leafs could realistically offer.

The commodity would be a working environment where he has more of a say on what makes up the on-ice product. Whether that's a semi-level GM position or a coach with more authority. It's an opportunity where he would ultimately have more power, AND more money. Let's not leave out the lure and opportunity of bringing a cup to the largest hockey fanbase on the planet.

The opportunity to bring a cup to Toronto might be intriguing, a challenge, sure but from his own words it seems he wants a real shot at a cup(s) which isn't happening for a while in Leafland, probably as long as 5 years. He might like more input too but again from his own words he's not a gm and isn't interested in being one. If it boils down to money the Leafs certainly have that covered, and don't get me wrong, I'd love to have him guide a young Leafs team, I just don't see it.

 

[Kin]

He might like more input too but again from his own words he's not a gm and isn't interested in being one.

But keep in mind the context those words are coming in. If Babcock had said he did want to be GM he'd essentially be announcing he was leaving Detroit. If his mind just isn't made up, if he's open to the possibility of leaving but also staying, then saying he didn't want to be GM leaves him room to still come back to the Wings.

Likewise, it's also worth remembering that whoever is GM in Toronto next year probably won't have the traditional GM responsibilities and control. So Babcock being "GM" in Toronto next year would give him that extra amount of input but wouldn't really give him two jobs.

 

[Tigger]

"I have no skill set to be a general manager. I'm a coach. I have no interest in sitting where Kenny sits at all. None.... I'm a coach, I love to coach."

"Do I want to have input? Yes. Do I have input here? Lots."

I'm not too worried about context there, it's obvious.

 

[Mike1]

The Leafs are so broken right now I don't even care what coach they get. It's the least of their problems.

Disagree completely. We need to find a good coach that is going to help begin putting this team on the right path. A lot of the garbage that went on last season was unacceptable & a disgrace. You can't bring young players along in a garbage environment. A coach that is going be open to working with young players, that is going to demand a consistent work ethic on & off the ice & that the team plays the system/sticks to the game plan is very important. Shanahan has to get that done with whomever he hires.

I will say this about Babcock. It would be much better to have him aboard teaching our young players & helping them learn, then some inexperienced coach that has never achieved anything before. The young players would benefit the most.

 

[bustaheims]

"I have no skill set to be a general manager. I'm a coach. I have no interest in sitting where Kenny sits at all. None.... I'm a coach, I love to coach."

"Do I want to have input? Yes. Do I have input here? Lots."

I'm not too worried about context there, it's obvious.

I don't know. What that tells me is that he doesn't want to just be the GM or have the full scope of the GM's responsibilities. It doesn't mean he doesn't want to a coach/AGM or something along those lines.

 

[Zee]

He might like more input too but again from his own words he's not a gm and isn't interested in being one.

But keep in mind the context those words are coming in. If Babcock had said he did want to be GM he'd essentially be announcing he was leaving Detroit. If his mind just isn't made up, if he's open to the possibility of leaving but also staying, then saying he didn't want to be GM leaves him room to still come back to the Wings.

Likewise, it's also worth remembering that whoever is GM in Toronto next year probably won't have the traditional GM responsibilities and control. So Babcock being "GM" in Toronto next year would give him that extra amount of input but wouldn't really give him two jobs.

A quasi GM role to go along with coach, I can see Babcock getting enticed by that. He has a say in player personnel, eases into a GM type role and if things go well perhaps in 5 years he wants to be a full GM-- either in Toronto or someplace else. 

Of course the Benjamins don't hurt either. [emoji1]

 

[BrownRolo]

According to Friedman Chiarelli has made an offer to McClellan and it sounds like a done deal according to another team interested in him. So there is one possible destination off the list if the rumour is true.

 

[ZBBM]

"I have no skill set to be a general manager. I'm a coach. I have no interest in sitting where Kenny sits at all. None.... I'm a coach, I love to coach."

"Do I want to have input? Yes. Do I have input here? Lots."

I'm not too worried about context there, it's obvious.

I don't know. What that tells me is that he doesn't want to just be the GM or have the full scope of the GM's responsibilities. It doesn't mean he doesn't want to a coach/AGM or something along those lines.

I think you're reading into it something that isn't there. For it to mean what you say it means would require a level of rhetorical subtlety or even cunning on the part of Babcock that there's no evidence for.

 

[Kin]

I think you're reading into it something that isn't there. For it to mean what you say it means would require a level of rhetorical subtlety or even cunning on the part of Babcock that there's no evidence for.

Not really. "Sitting where Kenny sits" pretty clearly implies that he wouldn't be coaching. "...I'm a coach, I love to coach" seems pretty unnecessary if he's referring to a possible situation where he'd still be coaching.

 

[ZBBM]

I think you're reading into it something that isn't there. For it to mean what you say it means would require a level of rhetorical subtlety or even cunning on the part of Babcock that there's no evidence for.

Not really. "Sitting where Kenny sits" pretty clearly implies that he wouldn't be coaching. "...I'm a coach, I love to coach" seems pretty unnecessary if he's referring to a possible situation where he'd still be coaching.

Not really ... what?  You sound like you're agreeing with me.

 

[Kin]

Not really ... what?  You sound like you're agreeing with me.

You said that for Babcock's quote to mean what Busta says it means it would require a level of cunning and subtlety and so on. I said "not really". To me it pretty clearly means that Babcock is saying that he doesn't want to give up coaching in order to become a GM, not that he doesn't want more authority of personnel decisions.

 

[rdowdall]

The last time a guy named Babcock came to Toronto, it didn't end well.

 

[rdowdall]

So this is interesting.  Babcock has never been fired...This is what happened last time his contract was up:

Babcock left Anaheim following the 2004-05 lockout for Detroit, where he?s now regarded as one of the best coaches in the league.

?During the lockout Bryan Murray went to Ottawa and when Brian Burke took over he gave me a one-year deal and offered me 10 days to look around,? Babcock said. ?So the one-year deal, I thought I would be fired in November. I didn?t think I was his guy, I didn?t think that was the right situation, so when they gave me the opportunity to look around, I was fortunate to have some options.?

Taken from here:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2015/01/06/red-wings-head-coach-mike-babcock-was-fired-by-whl-team-early-in-his-career

 

[Highlander]

Hey we have all been fired at least once or twice, or mulitple time in our lives. Babs come to T.O. we will fire your a_s if at all possible?its what we do.

 

[Al14]

Hey we have all been fired at least once or twice, or mulitple time in our lives. Babs come to T.O. we will fire your a_s if at all possible?its what we do.

No way we do that to one of the greatest coaches we'll ever have, that's assuming he does sign.  Now, should he fail as a coach at any point, he'll be given another job in the organization, or, he'll be allowed to simply resign his position.  I just don't see him being fired, well, unless there happens to be another non-hockey related issue that arises!

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

@mirtle
Leafs do have hires coming. Talk is that former Knights coach Lindsay Hofford is one, in some role. Had been pursued by OHL clubs to be GM.