Official Ottawa Senators Thread

[Frank E]

There are still plenty of leaf fans who haven't gotten over the way Sundin left and I think this situation is uglier than that.

I don't know how true that is about Sundin. He got a pretty warm reception on his homecoming and that was a few years ago at this point.

Secondly, if there's any real ugliness here...I'm not really seeing it. Everyone seems to be saying pretty nice things about each other with the exception of one comment from Murray which really seems directed more at Alfredsson's agent than anything.

Here's Alfredsson:

"I understood it's hard for them to agree to my terms, but I have my reasons," said Alfredsson. "I respect [Murray] a ton and that hasn't changed one bit."

Here's Melnyk:

?I was never upset ? I don?t think that?s a fair way to categorize it. I was ? like everyone else, I was surprised, and the bottom line is, he is a great legacy to the organization.

?We would have liked to have had him finish his career with us, but you know, it?s his life, it?s his decision,? he added.

And here's Murray:

"I have a great belief that what Alfie says, he believes," said Murray. "I think he is an honourable man and I have great respect for him"

Fan opinion, and admittedly I'm not immersed in the Ottawa fan scene, doesn't seem to be reacting too strongly and if it is, it seems torn between people blaming the Senators financial situation for everything and people who seem ok with losing Alfredsson but gaining Ryan.

So...Lebron leaving Cleveland this ain't.

DA put the blame squarely on the sens.

DA is suggesting that they tried to screw him on a verbal agreement they had in place...and Melnyk is blaming the agent.

But even Murray said they offered only a $4.5mil 1 year deal.  It seems pretty clear DA took that as an insult, and refused to negotiate with them based on that.

You may be right that the fans may not blame the player for his leaving, but it's pretty clear that DA spurned the sens. 

 

[bustaheims]

But even Murray said they offered only a $4.5mil 1 year deal.  It seems pretty clear DA took that as an insult, and refused to negotiate with them based on that.

You may be right that the fans may not blame the player for his leaving, but it's pretty clear that DA spurned the sens.

I don't think it's so black and white. From the sounds of things, Alfredsson's camp tried repeatedly to engage the team in contract negotiations over the course of the final year of his contract, only to not have those negotiations be taken all that seriously. The team waited until around the draft to really get serious about things, by which time, Alfredsson was understandably upset and had begun to consider his options. When the new interview period opened up a couple days later, Detroit offered up a deal that was to his interests, and, since the sens never appeared to have come off their original $4.5M offer, he took it. Considering the deal he got from Detroit only guarantees him $3.5M (the structure of his bonuses hasn't been officially released), I'm not convinced he was all that adamant about the $7M he's reported to have asked for. I think the team did a lot that pushed Alfredsson out the door more than him spurning the team.

 

[Frank E]

But even Murray said they offered only a $4.5mil 1 year deal.  It seems pretty clear DA took that as an insult, and refused to negotiate with them based on that.

You may be right that the fans may not blame the player for his leaving, but it's pretty clear that DA spurned the sens.

I don't think it's so black and white. From the sounds of things, Alfredsson's camp tried repeatedly to engage the team in contract negotiations over the course of the final year of his contract, only to not have those negotiations be taken all that seriously. The team waited until around the draft to really get serious about things, by which time, Alfredsson was understandably upset and had begun to consider his options. When the new interview period opened up a couple days later, Detroit offered up a deal that was to his interests, and, since the sens never appeared to have come off their original $4.5M offer, he took it. Considering the deal he got from Detroit only guarantees him $3.5M (the structure of his bonuses hasn't been officially released), I'm not convinced he was all that adamant about the $7M he's reported to have asked for. I think the team did a lot that pushed Alfredsson out the door more than him spurning the team.

I think that the $7mil offer was "I'm worth $5mil, and you owe me a couple for last year."

 

[bustaheims]

I think that the $7mil offer was "I'm worth $5mil, and you owe me a couple for last year."

Maybe it was, but I really don't believe it was a take it or leave it offer. The team never really made the effort to get back to him before free agency was basically around the corner. That tells me a lot about how much they valued him. If they were really intent on keeping him around, they would have started negotiations much earlier that 2 days before he was free to talk to any other team in the league.

 

[Kin]

But even Murray said they offered only a $4.5mil 1 year deal.  It seems pretty clear DA took that as an insult, and refused to negotiate with them based on that.

That seems fair, although I don't know that Alfredsson "refused to negotiate" so much as just decided to move on. To me it seems fairly straightforward. The Sens, who say they've got tight salary constraints, were interested in keeping Alfredsson but at a salary that reflects the player he's become and their financial realities. Alfredsson thought they owed him more, whether as a result of their cap circumventing deal or his accumulated years or whatever. The Sens weren't interested in paying him like he was still an all-star, had the Ryan deal on the table and knew they probably couldn't do both and hemmed and hawed before finally offering him a deal he didn't like and after dragging their feet. Alfredsson decided to move on.

I mean, we can throw around words like "spurned" or "ugly" or whatever but honestly it doesn't read to me as anything all that out of the ordinary with an aging star. I think you could say that much the same thing sort of happened to guys like Joe Montana and Brett Favre and Ozzie Smith and on and on and on.

So, yeah, I don't doubt that things are cool between them now but the idea that it did lasting damage to his reputation among the fans or even with the team...nah.

 

[Bonsixx]

But even Murray said they offered only a $4.5mil 1 year deal.  It seems pretty clear DA took that as an insult, and refused to negotiate with them based on that.

That seems fair, although I don't know that Alfredsson "refused to negotiate" so much as just decided to move on. To me it seems fairly straightforward. The Sens, who say they've got tight salary constraints, were interested in keeping Alfredsson but at a salary that reflects the player he's become and their financial realities. Alfredsson thought they owed him more, whether as a result of their cap circumventing deal or his accumulated years or whatever. The Sens weren't interested in paying him like he was still an all-star, had the Ryan deal on the table and knew they probably couldn't do both and hemmed and hawed before finally offering him a deal he didn't like and after dragging their feet. Alfredsson decided to move on.

I mean, we can throw around words like "spurned" or "ugly" or whatever but honestly it doesn't read to me as anything all that out of the ordinary with an aging star. I think you could say that much the same thing sort of happened to guys like Joe Montana and Brett Favre and Ozzie Smith and on and on and on.

So, yeah, I don't doubt that things are cool between them now but the idea that it did lasting damage to his reputation among the fans or even with the team...nah.

That's kind of the thing though, in the NFL teams, with no guaratneed contracts, don't blink twice about dropping a legend (ie: Peyton Manning, Brett Favre) whereas in hockey there's some sort of "code" about a guy playing with one team when he's done it for so long.

I

 

[Kin]

That's kind of the thing though, in the NFL teams, with no guaratneed contracts, don't blink twice about dropping a legend (ie: Peyton Manning, Brett Favre) whereas in hockey there's some sort of "code" about a guy playing with one team when he's done it for so long.

I don't think there really is. People may focus on the few cases where it happens but I think it's just as common for a player to play the tail end of their career somewhere else. Look at what happened recently with players like Sundin and Modano.

 

[hap_leaf]

When a veteran leaves where he has been the "face of the franchise", every case is different.  They can depart under scrutiny or both sides might agree.
I think it also matters on your viewpoint as a fan of that franchise or you are seeing it froma neutral standpoint.

For me, I harboured resentment to Sundin for the first year he left and then the memories of everything he had meant to the Leafs was more powerful.  The gap we have at center today still reminds me of his absence and the resent that I used to have.

I am no Bruins or Avalanche fan but a huge Ray Bourque fan.  When he left to pursue a Cup with Colorado I was thrilled.  I can't recall how the feel was from Bruin fans at the time, I hope they were happy for him.

I have quite a dislike for the Sens, Melnyk and Alfredsson so I'm actually enjoying all this drama.

 

[dappleganger]

When a veteran leaves where he has been the "face of the franchise", every case is different.  They can depart under scrutiny or both sides might agree.
I think it also matters on your viewpoint as a fan of that franchise or you are seeing it froma neutral standpoint.

For me, I harboured resentment to Sundin for the first year he left and then the memories of everything he had meant to the Leafs was more powerful.  The gap we have at center today still reminds me of his absence and the resent that I used to have.

I am no Bruins or Avalanche fan but a huge Ray Bourque fan.  When he left to pursue a Cup with Colorado I was thrilled.  I can't recall how the feel was from Bruin fans at the time, I hope they were happy for him.

I have quite a dislike for the Sens, Melnyk and Alfredsson so I'm actually enjoying all this drama.

Leafs management made Sundin leave.

Right or wrong, I'm upset about that. Never NEVER at Sundin. He wanted to stay.

Funny to me because he didn't spend his whole career in one jersey but it kinda felt that way.

 

[Joe S.]

For me, I harboured resentment to Sundin for the first year he left and then the memories of everything he had meant to the Leafs was more powerful. 

I know I may be derailing the thread a bit here, and you are entitled to the way you feel and how you perceive things.

However, this notion has always bothered me 'the way he left'. There are a few things to remember.

1. Cliff Fletcher tried to trade him. Sundin chose to remain with the team because he felt he could help them get into the playoffs.

2. When Burke took over, he did NOT offer Sundin a contract, he made a comment (I wish I could could find it) where he said something to the effect of Sundin does not fit in our plans.

So in my opinion, he didn't leave. He stuck with the team. There was no opportunity provided to him to stay once his contract had expired.

 

[hap_leaf]

1. Cliff Fletcher tried to trade him. Sundin chose to remain with the team because he felt he could help them get into the playoffs.

2. When Burke took over, he did NOT offer Sundin a contract, he made a comment (I wish I could could find it) where he said something to the effect of Sundin does not fit in our plans.

That Sundin chose to remain with the team because he felt he could help them get into the playoffs is subjective and revisionist.  It is clear he had options upcoming at the end of the season.  He would be able to pick his team and demand the highest possible price on the open market.  So instead of allowing the club to get something back in a trade he said that he didn't want to be a "rental player" and it was very important to him to be with his new future team from the start of the season.  He would not waive his NTC.  OK, fair enough.  But what really ticked me off at the time was signing with Vancouver mid season (January) in his bid to win a Cup.  So much for that priority. 

The Leafs, Rangers, Canucks and Habs all made offers to him during free agency in the summer of 2008.  He chose to leave - as was his right as a free agent.  Mats got exactly what he wanted.

As for Alfie, he has what he wants too.  He is getting paid more than the reported highest offer that Ottawa put on the table. 

 

[Kin]

That Sundin chose to remain with the team because he felt he could help them get into the playoffs is subjective and revisionist.

Regardless of Sundin's reasons though the point remains that he didn't choose to leave, he chose to stay. When he signed in Vancouver, again regardless of how you felt about that decision, it was after Burke decided to move on so there was no point at which Sundin decided to leave the Leafs.

So to put him together with Alfredsson seems completely off. If Ottawa fans are upset with Alfredsson it's because he decided to go elsewhere whereas the Toronto fans who have a bone to pick with Sundin, and I've written elsewhere at length about how ridiculous I think that is, seem upset with him because he decided to stay past his welcome date.

 

[bustaheims]

That Sundin chose to remain with the team because he felt he could help them get into the playoffs is subjective and revisionist.

It's not subjective or revisionist at all. It's representative of a direct quote from Sundin from the 2008 trade deadline.

 

[Bill_Berg]

People tend to confuse disappointment with Sundin for not allowing a trade with Sundin doing something wrong. I'm pissed when my ice cream falls off the cone and on to the street, but I don't hold it against the flavour.

Yes, I would have preferred Sundin allowed a trade that season. We had a slim chance to make the playoffs if I remember correctly, but I can't see any wrong in Sundin's decisions.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Karlsson an Alfredson's departure...

"For me on a personal level it's going to be tough for me, we're close friends and he's helped me out a lot. I only wish him all the best," he said.
"I still think we'll be friends.

"I don't think it's that sudden and I'm just happy he's still playing," Karlsson added. "We have to move on and I think we have guys on the team that's ready to take the next step and as of right now everybody's pretty excited to focus on our game and becoming a better team."

"There's going to be changes inside the locker-room and on the ice and I think the group of guys we have are going to handle that perfectly I think," said Karlsson. "I think there will be no problems moving on from here and as I said it was just a matter of time before Alfie was gone."

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/53077-Karlsson-says-next-season-will-be-tough-without-Alfredsson-on-a-personal-level.html

 

[Madferret]

Canada's Team

 

[Kin]

Canada's Team

The person who wrote that headline needs to learn what the word "voted" means.

 

[Madferret]

Canada's Team

The person who wrote that headline needs to learn what the word "voted" means.

Ish

 

[hockeyfan1]

Canada's Team

Not surprised considering the fact that that the Sens have had the most playoff visits of any of the Canadian-based teams in the last twenty or so years.  That, alone, is enough to make any Ottawa fan happy.

 

[Madferret]

This should be a big year in terms of taking that next step towards elite team / Cup threat status. Hala Pesky Sens