OHL thread....

[GhostofPotvin29]

With roster turnover, etc it doesn't make sense to me that a junior team can be or should be one of the best teams in the league continually, year after year.  I don't get it.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

With roster turnover, etc it doesn't make sense to me that a junior team can be or should be one of the best teams in the league continually, year after year.  I don't get it.

When you have players like Max Domi essentially forcing the team that drafted him to trade him to the Knights, things like this happen. (Domi essentially pulled an Eric Lindros for those wondering).

 

[CarltonTheBear]

With roster turnover, etc it doesn't make sense to me that a junior team can be or should be one of the best teams in the league continually, year after year.  I don't get it.

When you have players like Max Domi essentially forcing the team that drafted him to trade him to the Knights, things like this happen. (Domi essentially pulled an Eric Lindros for those wondering).

Windsor and Portland were also both recently punished by their leagues for recruitment violations, and it's probably a safe bet that they aren't the only ones doing some shady things in that area.

 

[L K]

With roster turnover, etc it doesn't make sense to me that a junior team can be or should be one of the best teams in the league continually, year after year.  I don't get it.

When you have players like Max Domi essentially forcing the team that drafted him to trade him to the Knights, things like this happen. (Domi essentially pulled an Eric Lindros for those wondering).

Windsor and Portland were also both recently punished by their leagues for recruitment violations, and it's probably a safe bet that they aren't the only ones doing some shady things in that area.

And the Knights haven't.  They get monitored pretty closely for it.  But seriously, how dare a 16 year old kid not want to be forced to move to an obscure part of the province and away from his family with absolutely no say in where he goes.

 

[Kin]

And the Knights haven't.  They get monitored pretty closely for it.  But seriously, how dare a 16 year old kid not want to be forced to move to an obscure part of the province and away from his family with absolutely no say in where he goes.

I agree in the sense that I have no problem with a kid choosing his junior team but I do think you may be giving a little too much credit to the OHL's monitoring. College programs in the states get monitored very closely by the NCAA but they frequently commit violations that go on for pretty significant stretches of time. I'm not saying the Knights commit similar violations but I wouldn't rule it out either.

 

[LittleHockeyFan]

Domi. Sense of entitlement.  :  Who'd have thought that?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

But seriously, how dare a 16 year old kid not want to be forced to move to an obscure part of the province and away from his family with absolutely no say in where he goes.

You might be able to defend Domi's decision here, but it's situations like these that somewhat answer Potvin's original question. Domi wasn't traded because he didn't want to play in "an obscure part of the province", he was traded because he wanted to play for London and only London. If any other team drafting ahead of Kingston picked him he would have forced them to move him too, and they knew that. Kingston was just in a situation where they could benefit more from picking and trading him than selecting another player.

With that said, London has obviously built an incredible reputation in the OHL and players want to play there. So good for them for taking advantage of these situations. But I'm sure a kid who was picked later in the draft isn't exactly thrilled that Domi essentially got to pick where he wanted to go simply because he's a star, while the other 95% of the OHL talent pool had to abide by the draft.

 

[Kin]

But I'm sure a kid who was picked later in the draft isn't exactly thrilled that Domi essentially got to pick where he wanted to go simply because he's a star, while the other 95% of the OHL talent pool had to abide by the draft.

I'm guessing that a 16 year old who's come up in Ontario's minor hockey system is probably well acquainted with the fact that star players have more options available to them.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Obviously I'm biased, but it's frustrating seeing players continually orchestrate their way out of going to play for places like the Soo, and as a result our team is stuck spinning our wheels because we can't count on a high draft pick getting a star player because they might force their way out.  Daniel Catenacci is just the latest to do so (and is now top-10 in scoring), setting the team back again because the Hounds could never hope to get equal value in return.  So instead of having Catenacci and Cousins as two probably top-10 scorers in the league at the same time/age, we're down to having Cousins and waiting on another group of younger players behind them.  And this isn't including the players the Hounds have drafted and refused to play for them (Jordan Mayer) or haven't drafted because they have said they wouldn't report.

It's frustrating as a fan, and while it's great London has a full rink all the time, it's really killing the passion of very passionate and serious fans in the Soo to continually see this happen to them.

*Obviously it's not the ONLY reason they've not performed well recently, but I maintain it plays a huge part.*

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

But seriously, how dare a 16 year old kid not want to be forced to move to an obscure part of the province and away from his family with absolutely no say in where he goes.

In theory sure, no one would argue with that.  But it's how the OHL is, and they all know it when they choose to play in the OHL, they could choose NCAA route if they want.

Since it is how the OHL is, I don't see why they should be any different than the other players, especially since it affects the integrity of the league.

 

[Kin]

In theory sure, no one would argue with that.  But it's how the OHL is, and they all know it when they choose to play in the OHL, they could choose NCAA route if they want.

Since it is how the OHL is, I don't see why they should be any different than the other players, especially since it affects the integrity of the league.

That kind of cuts both ways though. Players know that the OHL has a draft but they also know they can ask for trades and go to the NCAA if they don't like where they're drafted. I'm assuming no corrective measures have been taken by the CHL precisely because they don't want to take a "Hey, if you don't like it go to the NCAA" stance and see just that happen.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

True, good point.

 

[BrownRolo]

With roster turnover, etc it doesn't make sense to me that a junior team can be or should be one of the best teams in the league continually, year after year.  I don't get it.

When you have players like Max Domi essentially forcing the team that drafted him to trade him to the Knights, things like this happen. (Domi essentially pulled an Eric Lindros for those wondering).

Windsor and Portland were also both recently punished by their leagues for recruitment violations, and it's probably a safe bet that they aren't the only ones doing some shady things in that area.

And the Knights haven't.  They get monitored pretty closely for it.  But seriously, how dare a 16 year old kid not want to be forced to move to an obscure part of the province and away from his family with absolutely no say in where he goes.

He was drafted by Kingston, right? Is Kingston considered to be in an obscure part of the province? I've always thought Kingston is a decent city in a great location about halfway in between Toronto and Ottawa.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

And the Knights haven't.  They get monitored pretty closely for it.  But seriously, how dare a 16 year old kid not want to be forced to move to an obscure part of the province and away from his family with absolutely no say in where he goes.

I don't know, perhaps at some point these 'children' need to realize you're not always where you want to be in life and sometimes you have to suck it up and live with it. 99% of players would take a shot anywhere just do get drafted to the junior ranks. These kids act like spoiled rotten brats when they say "but daddy, I don't want to play there"...

And if he wanted to play by his family, he would of asked for Brampton or Mississauga..... After all, London is 2 hours away(a mere 30 minutes closer than Kingston).

 

[Kin]

I don't know, perhaps at some point these 'children' need to realize you're not always where you want to be in life and sometimes you have to suck it up and live with it.

They're 16 years old. There's no need to put children in quotation marks. Parents of a 16 year old should be primarily concerned with what's best for their children, not what's best for the competitive balance of the OHL. They should have just as much say in what junior team they play for as they do what school they go to.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I don't know, perhaps at some point these 'children' need to realize you're not always where you want to be in life and sometimes you have to suck it up and live with it.

They're 16 years old. There's no need to put children in quotation marks. Parents of a 16 year old should be primarily concerned with what's best for their children, not what's best for the competitive balance of the OHL. They should have just as much say in what junior team they play for as they do what school they go to.

That's great Nik, but in Novice, Atom's, Peewees, Bantams, and Midgets parents don't have much say in where their kids play. You have to play in your district..you know, to keep the competitive balance.

So it's great to send your kid to the top team in the league to make things easier on him, but what lesson are you teaching him...Stomp your feet real loud and you'll get what you want?

 

[Kin]

That's great Nik, but in Novice, Atom's, Peewees, Bantams, and Midgets parents don't have much say in where their kids play. You have to play in your district..you know, to keep the competitive balance.

Sure but none of that involves having a kid move away from home. If the OHL went to a catchment or district based approach they'd have a much firmer leg to stand on. If you're going to ask a family to do that, you have to give them a measure of input and, yes, the quality of the organization is going to matter. Parent's are going to want to entrust their kids to the best possible operations.

So it's great to send your kid to the top team in the league to make things easier on him, but what lesson are you teaching him...Stomp your feet real loud and you'll get what you want?

The same thing my folks taught me. If I worked very hard in high school and got high enough grades, I would get to choose where I went to university based on where I wanted to live and who offered the best program. So I did and I did. I didn't have to go to Guelph because they'd chosen me in an effort to get their average freshman GPA up(and boy, would they have been disappointed if they did)

Kids like Domi work hard to be a top prospect. I've got no problem with him having as much choice in his future as a dope like I had.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Kids like Domi work hard to be a top prospect. I've got no problem with him having as much choice in his future as a dope like I had.

Here's the thing, right or wrong, the OHL's franchises are businesses(yes, this discussion has come up and is a completely different ball of wax)...And said businesses should have the right to draft their talent to make their company(team) as attractive to the customers(the fans) as possible.

And yes these businesses are making money off of children and young adults and as wrong as that is, the only solution to combat that would be to have the players parents pay the expenses of their kid to play junior hockey and to travel the province much like 'AAA' hockey in Ontario....(holy run on sentence batman)

 

[Kin]

Here's the thing, right or wrong, the OHL's franchises are businesses(yes, this discussion has come up and is a completely different ball of wax)...And said businesses should have the right to draft their talent to make their company(team) as attractive to the customers(the fans) as possible.

But unless that draft is somehow bargained collectively then people who aren't party to it(ie, parents and the players) are in no way beholden to it. If the OHL has the "right" to draft and assign Domi without his say, Domi has the right to tell the OHL to get bent and let them know who he is interested in playing for. If the OHL doesn't like his "demand" they can not let him into the league.

Like I said above, the reason the situation exists as it does is because the NCAA is a viable alternative and at least there players get to choose where they go.

And yes these businesses are making money off of children and young adults and as wrong as that is, the only solution to combat that would be to have the players parents pay the expenses of their kid to play junior hockey and to travel the province much like 'AAA' hockey in Ontario....(holy run on sentence batman)

Or scrap junior hockey altogether and adopt a model like you have in the states where kids play for their high school/local amateur team.

 

[LittleHockeyFan]

Wow... I'm bawling here. Kudos and huge respect to Peterborough Petes goalie Andrew D'Agostini, being a good citizen and helping a little boy with CF. Awesome kids...both of them.