Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Big Daddy said:Phaneuf being traded to SJ for the right to negotiate with Thornton and Boyle
Potvin29 said:He shouldn't be difficult to move if they wanted to, his deal isn't outrageous.
CarltonTheBear said:His no-trade clause won't kick in until July 1st too, so there's nothing stopping Nonis from dealing him to Edmonton or Winnipeg.
From Mirtle-Phaneuf has more value signed than as a pending UFA, so I'm not sure you can rip the fact the Leafs locked him up. That helps a trade.CarltonTheBear said:So Shanahan apparently disagrees with the 2nd biggest decision Nonis made as Leafs GM but he trusts him enough to let him go out and fix that mistake.
edit: If this is all true then it should answer any questions to as to who is making the hockey decisions here.
Is Gunnarsson been shopped?Rebel_1812 said:How could trading the best defense men be a step forward? Who are you going to trade him for that is better?
Nik the Trik said:The ability to do those things, the ability to turn up nuggets of gold in unlikely methods in addition to drafting at the top of the draft is how teams speed up that process. 7 years may be a fair benchmark for a rebuilding team reaching their full potential but a base built by superstars at the top of the draft and augmented in other ways does not take 7 years to become an entertaining playoff team or even a contender.
hap_leaf said:For sure, the Av's turned it around in a big hurry via the draft: MacKinnon (1), Landeskog (2), Duchene (3), O'Reilly (33) and of course Stastny (44).
hap_leaf said:So I think in some ways you are cherry picking the teams in your examples as having to have won the Cup in recent years.
pmrules said:Semantics aside of whether he is being "shopped" or "available" (like everyone on this team should be), I am of the opinion we should focus on obtaining a worthy partner for Phaneuf by bringing in another 1st pairing defenseman to help him out...maybe even drop Phaneuf to #2 status if possible.
A Weekend at Bernier's said:pmrules said:Semantics aside of whether he is being "shopped" or "available" (like everyone on this team should be), I am of the opinion we should focus on obtaining a worthy partner for Phaneuf by bringing in another 1st pairing defenseman to help him out...maybe even drop Phaneuf to #2 status if possible.
I agree with this. However, if the rumours are true, then Shanahan's evaluation of the team must have concluded that Phaneuf is ineffective as a captain. It's likely tjhat it's easier to trade a captain than strip a core player of their captaincy and expect them to play hard and well for the next seven years.
A Weekend at Bernier's said:Trade Phaneuf for, oh I don't know, say Jordan Eberle (spitballing here), then trade Lupul for Alex Edler. Boom goes the dynamite and, in my opinion, the Leafs are a better team next year.
Nik the Trik said:A Weekend at Bernier's said:Trade Phaneuf for, oh I don't know, say Jordan Eberle (spitballing here), then trade Lupul for Alex Edler. Boom goes the dynamite and, in my opinion, the Leafs are a better team next year.
They might be better(although that's why I wouldn't make either of those trades if I were the Oilers or Canucks) but probably not to the point where anyone would look at the Leafs as legit contenders. At some point they're going to have to address closing that gap.
Rebel_1812 said:Patrick said:Reports from Kypreos suggest that Phaneuf is being shopped out West.
Perhaps this is the first step in the culture change, thoughts on potential trading partners and potential returns we'd be happy with?
How could trading the best defense men be a step forward? Who are you going to trade him for that is better?
Nik the Trik said:princedpw said:I do think that people fail to calculate the amount of time a tear-it-down rebuild takes. Suppose you need 4 really good players to compete for a championship. That's 4 years in a row of top draft picks (with none of those years being a bust). Then you have to let those 4 players mature a number of years each. If the last of the 4 takes 3 years to mature (unlikely for a defenseman, so you have to draft your star defenseman early, which, Edmonton, for example, didnt do, meaning they have to wait several more years for a guy like Nurse to be a force). Anyway, we are at 4+3 = 7 years minimum for a normal burn-it-down rebuild. We might be a little better than that because we already have Rielly and Gardiner, who have some chance at turning in to those top defencemen that one needs.
Except that's not a realistic portrait of how any top teams were actually built. In order for a team to be competitive you're right that they probably need at least 4 exceptional players but exceptional players can be acquired in any number of ways. Here's the recent champions and a reasonable guess at their four best players and how they obtained them:
Blackhawks: Kane(1st overall), Toews(3rd overall), Keith(54th overall), Sharp(trade) or Hossa(UFA) or Crawford(52nd overall)
Kings: Quick(72nd overall), Kopitar(11th overall), Doughty(2nd overall), Mike Richards(trade)
Bruins: Thomas(UFA), Chara(UFA), Bergeron(45th overall), Lucic(50th overall)
Penguins: Crosby(1st overall), Malkin (2nd overall), Fleury(1st overall) Gonchar(UFA)
Even if you want to throw a bone to the argument and say that the Penguins 4 best players were the four guys they drafted at the top of the draft, making them the only team that really fits your mold, then there's still the noticeable absence of any defensemen on the list.
Teams who are rebuilding still get to make trades. They still have draft picks beyond the first round(and can have multiple first round picks). Those four exceptional players can come from anywhere and while the smart money is on finding those players at the top of the draft it's the ultimate strawman argument favoured by defenders of MLSE's seeming religious objection to proper rebuilding that simply drafting high for multiple years will guarantee a team that eventually contends for a cup, Truth is in order to build a cup contender a team does have to sign good free agents and make good trades and draft well outside of the top ten.
The ability to do those things, the ability to turn up nuggets of gold in unlikely methods in addition to drafting at the top of the draft is how teams speed up that process. 7 years may be a fair benchmark for a rebuilding team reaching their full potential but a base built by superstars at the top of the draft and augmented in other ways does not take 7 years to become an entertaining playoff team or even a contender.
The Leafs wouldn't be rebuilding from nothing. They'd still have Rielly. They'd still have guys like Finn and Percy. They'd still have the assets trading guys like Phaneuf would bring back. Heck, they might even still have Kadri and Gardiner. There's no denying that the first few years of a rebuilding process would be tough to watch but can get better fairly quickly.
Agreed,I am glad that he might be traded..I was in the camp of trading him before they signed him for 7 years.As you say his cap relief can leave the team freed up for future moves.nutman said:I think Phaneuf is more of a problem on the defense then a help. I don't think he is liked by the core players, and I don't think they like the fact he gets caught flat footed as well as gives up the blue line so much.
I think his best value to the Leafs is the cap we would save , and the value we could get for him in a trade. I bet management is thinking the same.