Phil Kessel

[nutman]

Everyone has an answer and Cox answer is to deal our best player, for some picks to set us back even more. goooo Cox, your the man.
I wish everyone would realize when they speak of the Kessel deal, that we traded him for picks. who  it turned out to be was shi* luck for Boston,everything fell into place for them. whos to say we would have ended up with them guys if we never made the deal.

 

[TML fan]

Can someone explain to me what qualifies as a secondary piece and what qualifies as a front man?

Mats Sundin and Alex Mogilny.

Mats was the face of the franchise and proved it day in and day out whether on the ice or with the Media/community. He was the cornerstone of the franchise.

Alex showed up to the rink, did his job and went home.

It's tough for me to explain I guess but it's more a personality type than a skill set if that makes sense (in my opinion anyway).

So that person doesn't necessarily have to be the best player on the team?

Using my "definition" I guess no but typically that type of player is at or near the top of the depth chart.

Ok, so someone like Joffrey Lupul?

 

[Zee]

Everyone has an answer and Cox answer is to deal our best player, for some picks to set us back even more. goooo Cox, your the man.
I wish everyone would realize when they speak of the Kessel deal, that we traded him for picks. who  it turned out to be was shi* luck for Boston,everything fell into place for them. whos to say we would have ended up with them guys if we never made the deal.

The problem is you have to sign Kessel long term or trade him.  If they determine he's not keen on staying here, then they have to trade him.

 

[nutman]

Everyone has an answer and Cox answer is to deal our best player, for some picks to set us back even more. goooo Cox, your the man.
I wish everyone would realize when they speak of the Kessel deal, that we traded him for picks. who  it turned out to be was shi* luck for Boston,everything fell into place for them. whos to say we would have ended up with them guys if we never made the deal.

The problem is you have to sign Kessel long term or trade him.  If they determine he's not keen on staying here, then they have to trade him.

He seems to like it here, so I hope thats not the issue. my guess is Cox is being a blowhard.

 

[Kin]

Mats Sundin and Alex Mogilny.

Mats was the face of the franchise and proved it day in and day out whether on the ice or with the Media/community. He was the cornerstone of the franchise.

Alex showed up to the rink, did his job and went home.

It's tough for me to explain I guess but it's more a personality type than a skill set if that makes sense (in my opinion anyway).

I think ability plays a slightly bigger role than that in the distinction. I think  real front man sorts are guys who are capable of being the best player on a Cup Champion team, who are at or close to being among the top 5 in the league at their position and so on.

 

[Joe S.]

regardless what Kessel cost the leafs, they have him now. The Leafs should be looking at complimenting him, not shipping him out for what, a centre? Then what, the centre has no one to work with? Then we're back to the Sundin era again.

Young natural goal scorers aren't easy to find, the Leafs have one for once. In all honesty, since 1990, tell me how many Leafs players we've had that could score goals like Kessel - 4 maybe? (Sundin, Mogilny, Andreychuk, Gilmour) I can' think of any others off the top of my head...

Instead of trying to pawn him off, the concentration should be on plugging the holes the team has (Centre, goalie).

I'm telling you now, you give up Kessel, in a few years time the complaint will be on the lack of scoring wingers...

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

regardless what Kessel cost the leafs, they have him now. The Leafs should be looking at complimenting him, not shipping him out for what, a centre? Then what, the centre has no one to work with? Then we're back to the Sundin era again.

Young natural goal scorers aren't easy to find, the Leafs have one for once. In all honesty, since 1990, tell me how many Leafs players we've had that could score goals like Kessel - 4 maybe? (Sundin, Mogilny, Andreychuk, Gilmour) I can' think of any others off the top of my head...

Instead of trying to pawn him off, the concentration should be on plugging the holes the team has (Centre, goalie).

I'm telling you now, you give up Kessel, in a few years time the complaint will be on the lack of scoring wingers...

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[Kin]

regardless what Kessel cost the leafs, they have him now. The Leafs should be looking at complimenting him, not shipping him out for what, a centre? Then what, the centre has no one to work with? Then we're back to the Sundin era again.

The idea behind trading Kessel isn't so much about what he'd return as it is the idea that you'd be at long last committing to a full-scale rebuild. The pieces he'd bring in return would then join forces with who the Leafs would draft and boom. NHL Voltron.

Young natural goal scorers aren't easy to find, the Leafs have one for once. In all honesty, since 1990, tell me how many Leafs players we've had that could score goals like Kessel - 4 maybe? (Sundin, Mogilny, Andreychuk, Gilmour) I can' think of any others off the top of my head...

Berezin was pretty good. Scored more in his best season as a Leaf than either Gilmour or Mogilny.

Instead of trying to pawn him off, the concentration should be on plugging the holes the team has (Centre, goalie).

Again, the point here revolves around the very real question of how the Leafs are actually going to plug those holes. Absent trading a guy with real value and trying to draft high, where is the #1 centre going to come from?

I'm telling you now, you give up Kessel, in a few years time the complaint will be on the lack of scoring wingers...

But what's being advocated has trading Kessel as a step in the process, not the final move.

Wingers, anyway, have proven to be slightly easier to come by in free agency than either goaltenders or centres.

 

[Joe S.]

I knew someone would bring up Berezin - I just didn't expect it to be you!

C'mon, honestly, he was not a consistent player. He had 160 career NHL goals, Kessel already has 165.

 

[Can8899]

Can someone explain to me what qualifies as a secondary piece and what qualifies as a front man?

Mats Sundin and Alex Mogilny.

Mats was the face of the franchise and proved it day in and day out whether on the ice or with the Media/community. He was the cornerstone of the franchise.

Alex showed up to the rink, did his job and went home.

It's tough for me to explain I guess but it's more a personality type than a skill set if that makes sense (in my opinion anyway).

So that person doesn't necessarily have to be the best player on the team?

Using my "definition" I guess no but typically that type of player is at or near the top of the depth chart.

Ok, so someone like Joffrey Lupul?

If you ask me, I'd put Lupul in that category. 

When Lupul came to the Leafs, he was basically a salary dump with very little expectations.  It turns out that he has been excellent and has embraced the Leafs as a team that he wants to be a part of. His comments after he signed his extension showed this.

With Kessel, he came to the Leafs with un-realistic expectations (not his fault) which of course he has not met.  In addition, as has been stated previously he shuns the spotlight which is something the star player on the Leafs cannot do (especially a Leafs team that has had little success). 

 

[lamajama]

It's very difficult being a fan of this team when we always want whatever
it is we haven't got - and when we get it we want to trade it.

Yes Phil will always be linked to the trade and that more than anything
would be his downfall in Toronto - but the guy has done what everyone hoped he would do in Toronto - score goals.

So he hasn't scored yet. He will and it will be in bunches. I have no worries about Phil other than what IMO is unfair BS about him.

 

[cw]

As some have said, anyone is tradeable. Whether one does it simply depends on what one gets back.

If I was the new GM, I'd probably tear this club apart, purging the older vets and rebuild properly. But under Nonis, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Since the question has been raised and I think the Leafs would like to keep Kessel, who is an elite goal scorer in this league, the thing that may trigger the Leafs to move him would be if Kessel shows signs of moving on as a UFA.

Kessel might show signs of wanting to move on because:

1. He's American and may want to move closer to home for family reasons

2. He's a shy person and I do not think he likes the Toronto media limelight ... look no further than Cox's article or what he's been through in a scoring slump or how big of a deal they put him through when he plays Boston. Not fun stuff that can be avoided by playing elsewhere.

3. He may want to play for a contender and play with a good center before he hangs them up and that might not look like it's happening very soon before he makes his decision on UFA status. No franchise centers or goalies are currently in sight.

In light of the above, if I had to bet on it today, it's not an obvious easy call but I'd be inclined to bet Kessel is playing for another NHL team by July, 2014. They don't want to lose him for nothing.

 

[Redleaf]

As some have said, anyone is tradeable. Whether one does it simply depends on what one gets back.

If I was the new GM, I'd probably tear this club apart, purging the older vets and rebuild properly. But under Nonis, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Since the question has been raised and I think the Leafs would like to keep Kessel, who is an elite goal scorer in this league, the thing that may trigger the Leafs to move him would be if Kessel shows signs of moving on as a UFA.

Kessel might show signs of wanting to move on because:

1. He's American and may want to move closer to home for family reasons

2. He's a shy person and I do not think he likes the Toronto media limelight ... look no further than Cox's article or what he's been through in a scoring slump or how big of a deal they put him through when he plays Boston. Not fun stuff that can be avoided by playing elsewhere.

3. He may want to play for a contender and play with a good center before he hangs them up and that might not look like it's happening very soon before he makes his decision on UFA status. No franchise centers or goalies are currently in sight.

In light of the above, if I had to bet on it today, it's not an obvious easy call but I'd be inclined to bet Kessel is playing for another NHL team by July, 2014. They don't want to lose him for nothing.

I would love to sift through any and all offers that get piled on Nonis's desk for Kessel. Realistically, what can we expect in return for Kessel if becomes trade bait or indicates that he'd prefer to move on? Would a 1st, 2nd, and a high end prospect be too much? Who would be considered a fair one for one swop?

 

[ZBBM]

Kessel appears ill-conditioned, isolated, troubled or simply massively unlucky, or some combination of those.

Whatever the case, it is becoming difficult to imagine a scenario in which Kessel remains a Leaf beyond the end of this season.

First statement is pure innuendo, and is garbage.

Second statement is just garbage pure and simple.

Having said that, Cox is right.  Kessel has the best chance of succeeding when he is a complementary part of a much better team -- one with solid leadership so he can be in the background -- than the Leafs.  A team like, oh, the Bruins. 

I think the best route, maybe the only route, back to respectability for the Leafs is to build a team around guys whose competitiveness could never be questioned.  Kessel is a star scorer, and occasionally a brilliant passer, but that is it and that's all he'll ever be.  Broken record: you can't use guys like that as cornerstones. 

I would love to see Kessel dealt for a good young player and a 1st at the deadline. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Kessel appears ill-conditioned, isolated, troubled or simply massively unlucky, or some combination of those.

What a piece of garbage Cox is.

He's clearly unlucky.  He's got 24 shots on goal, and from what I've seen, has been playing more or less the same as in his other 30+ goal seasons. 

"Isolated" - what does that even mean? 

That's the great thing about Cox' job - doesn't need any real qualifications other than able to write coherently.  Doesn't appear to have any special knowledge about the game.  Never substantiates anything he writes.  Never has to back any of it up or defend any of it.  Blocks those on Twitter who disagree with him.  Can spout vague generalities to drum up controversy and page views.

What a job.

 

[PG]

In light of the above, if I had to bet on it today, it's not an obvious easy call but I'd be inclined to bet Kessel is playing for another NHL team by July, 2014. They don't want to lose him for nothing.

I'm inclined to bet the same way. He is going to cash in regardless of where he goes. Plus he is never going to live up to Leaf fans' expectations (unfairly pinned on him by the insane amount Burke gave up for him).

And, unless I have missed it, I have never heard anything about him wanting to remain here. I haven't heard the opposite either, but still......

 

[cw]

TO Star, Cox: Toronto Maple Leafs need to turn page on Phil Kessel
Published on Wednesday March 14, 2012

Not the first time Cox has tried to make the case to move Kessel

(for the record, I don't care for Cox, never have and do not endorse either article)

 

[Redleaf]

To kind of answer my own question, I wonder if Carolina would be willing to trade Jeff Skinner straight up for Kessel?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

In light of the above, if I had to bet on it today, it's not an obvious easy call but I'd be inclined to bet Kessel is playing for another NHL team by July, 2014. They don't want to lose him for nothing.

I'm inclined to bet the same way. He is going to cash in regardless of where he goes. Plus he is never going to live up to Leaf fans' expectations (unfairly pinned on him by the insane amount Burke gave up for him).

And, unless I have missed it, I have never heard anything about him wanting to remain here. I haven't heard the opposite either, but still......

Here's a quote from Feb 2011, quickest I could find, not sure if there are more recent ones, but anyways:

"I love Toronto, I want to be here," Kessel told reporters. "I love this city. I love the fans. I love this team. The guys are great here. I don't want any trade or anything like that. I want to be here for a very long time."

EDIT:

Here's him on day 2 of training camp this season:

?You know, the fans here are great. There?s a lot of media obviously. But I love playing here. I don?t think you guys are too bad here.?

 

[TML fan]

In light of the above, if I had to bet on it today, it's not an obvious easy call but I'd be inclined to bet Kessel is playing for another NHL team by July, 2014. They don't want to lose him for nothing.

I'm inclined to bet the same way. He is going to cash in regardless of where he goes. Plus he is never going to live up to Leaf fans' expectations (unfairly pinned on him by the insane amount Burke gave up for him).

And, unless I have missed it, I have never heard anything about him wanting to remain here. I haven't heard the opposite either, but still......

Here's a quote from Feb 2011, quickest I could find, not sure if there are more recent ones, but anyways:

"I love Toronto, I want to be here," Kessel told reporters. "I love this city. I love the fans. I love this team. The guys are great here. I don't want any trade or anything like that. I want to be here for a very long time."

This is when he said "it's not working out here" which got massively blown out of proportion by everyone.