Phil Kessel

[Jalili]

To kind of answer my own question, I wonder if Carolina would be willing to trade Jeff Skinner straight up for Kessel?

Can't see any reason why Carolina would...

 

[Jalili]

I would love to see Kessel dealt for a good young player and a 1st at the deadline.

I don't think that's out of the question either.  It would help the case ALOT if Kessel started scoring again, and by the time the deadline rolls around he has 15-17 goals (there will have been 36 games played up to the deadline this year).  He'd had to get very hot for that to happen, as there's only 31 games left now and he's at 0.

I can see a contending team who thinks they have a chance to "go for it" this year, wanting to add Kessel, an elite goal scorer.  He's not even a rental since he has 1 year left after this season.

Would we be in a better position if we did that than if we re-signed Kessel?

My vote is no.

Leafs are better off extending Kessel in my mind.

 

[ZBBM]

The fact that this thread has gone red-hot tells you everything you need to know about whether Kessel is a franchise building block.  If he were, there'd be no debate.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The fact that this thread has gone red-hot tells you everything you need to know about whether Kessel is a franchise building block.  If he were, there'd be no debate.

Because Sundin certainly never generated debate among media and fans.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I'll give Cox one thing, he really knows how to stir the Toronto pot. I don't agree with much he says, recently I did about training camp ins and outs, but he's way off on this one. Kessel will be fine, once he starts scoring again, people will forget about this.

I agree with Potvin also, he has looked a little better in the 200' player capacity. He knows he has to play this way for Carlyle, he'll just have to learn how to get the scoring opportunities out of it.

 

[Redleaf]

To kind of answer my own question, I wonder if Carolina would be willing to trade Jeff Skinner straight up for Kessel?

Can't see any reason why Carolina would...

Better players round him make Kessel an upgrade on a team trying to contend NOW.

 

[hockeyfan1]

The fact that this thread has gone red-hot tells you everything you need to know about whether Kessel is a franchise building block.  If he were, there'd be no debate.

Because Sundin certainly never generated debate among media and fans.

Because Sundin was in a class all unto himself.  Comparing him to any of his teammates would have been like comparing apples to oranges.  Different.

 

[mc]

We gave up three picks to get Kessel and those picks have proved what a mass overpayment they were. But we all know that already.

Currently, I think, if Kessel was shopped, we *might* get a first round pick in return and that too NOT from a mediocre team - a contender, so that pick will easily be either 30 or 29. Because Kessel is a complimentary player. Not a centre piece. He is the last piece of the puzzle for a contender. Not someone you build around. Four years have taught us that. His scoring hasn't lifted the Leafs from the leagues' basement standings. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

We gave up three picks to get Kessel and those picks have proved what a mass overpayment they were. But we all know that already.

Currently, I think, if Kessel was shopped, we *might* get a first round pick in return and that too NOT from a mediocre team - a contender, so that pick will easily be either 30 or 29. Because Kessel is a complimentary player. Not a centre piece. He is the last piece of the puzzle for a contender. Not someone you build around. Four years have taught us that. His scoring hasn't lifted the Leafs from the leagues' basement standings.

Sidney Crosby's scoring didn't lift Pittsburgh from the leagues basement.

 

[Jalili]

To kind of answer my own question, I wonder if Carolina would be willing to trade Jeff Skinner straight up for Kessel?

Can't see any reason why Carolina would...

Better players round him make Kessel an upgrade on a team trying to contend NOW.

If Carolina's after Kessel, I don't think Skinner will be a player that's on the table, much as we'd like him to be.

 

[louisstamos]

If the Jets are still in contention at the deadline:

Phil Kessel for Mark Sheifele and a 1st?

Would you?  Would the Jets?

(maybe this belongs in the armchair gm thread, but just curious as to how some would gauge his value...)

 

[Can8899]

To kind of answer my own question, I wonder if Carolina would be willing to trade Jeff Skinner straight up for Kessel?

Can't see any reason why Carolina would...

Skinner is younger, has similar stats and is locked up for the next 6 years.  Add to that the media and community in Raleigh love him, he's not going anywhere.

 

[cw]

We gave up three picks to get Kessel and those picks have proved what a mass overpayment they were. But we all know that already.

Currently, I think, if Kessel was shopped, we *might* get a first round pick in return and that too NOT from a mediocre team - a contender, so that pick will easily be either 30 or 29. Because Kessel is a complimentary player. Not a centre piece. He is the last piece of the puzzle for a contender. Not someone you build around. Four years have taught us that. His scoring hasn't lifted the Leafs from the leagues' basement standings.

A first round pick is about 50/50 whether they do much in the NHL. A low 1st round pick is less than that. Kessel isn't a 50/50 possibility of whether he'll play in the NHL. Ignoring chance of injury every player has, he's a proven 30+ goal scorer. So he's likely to attract more than that. Remember, with Boston, he'd had one good season. He's since proven that wasn't a fluke.

Kaberle got a 1st round pick & Joe Colborne (1st round pick prospect) and a conditional 2nd round pick (lowish picks because Boston was near the top of the league). Dmen are worth more than wingers but Kessel has age on his side. So that's roughly what one could expect for Kessel given a few teams would be bidding - probably more for the condition if he re-signs.

EDIT: rather than nailing down what exactly his  value is with the above, as I really need to give it more thought, the point is that I think Kessel is worth much more than a low 1st round pick.

 

[ZBBM]

The fact that this thread has gone red-hot tells you everything you need to know about whether Kessel is a franchise building block.  If he were, there'd be no debate.

Because Sundin certainly never generated debate among media and fans.

Uh, we're talking about trade debates here.  Don't recall anything like that re Sundin other than the waive-NTC hoo ha. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The fact that this thread has gone red-hot tells you everything you need to know about whether Kessel is a franchise building block.  If he were, there'd be no debate.

Because Sundin certainly never generated debate among media and fans.

Uh, we're talking about trade debates here.  Don't recall anything like that re Sundin other than the waive-NTC hoo ha.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh

Sundin often came under intense criticism in his time in Toronto.

EDIT: But Sundin was also a part of much better teams in the early 2000s, so there would have been no real point to talking about trading him when you were had a team contending for the Cup.

 

[ZBBM]

The fact that this thread has gone red-hot tells you everything you need to know about whether Kessel is a franchise building block.  If he were, there'd be no debate.

Because Sundin certainly never generated debate among media and fans.

Uh, we're talking about trade debates here.  Don't recall anything like that re Sundin other than the waive-NTC hoo ha.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh

Sundin often came under intense criticism in his time in Toronto.

EDIT: But Sundin was also a part of much better teams in the early 2000s, so there would have been no real point to talking about trading him when you were had a team contending for the Cup.

I think we're talking past each other.  I'm saying if Kessel were a cornerstone beyond debate, there would be no appetite to discuss possibly trading him in his prime.  I don't think anyone clamored to deal Sundin in the same way.  That's not to say that there weren't people (wrong people, as it turned out) who didn't like his style of play, thought he wasn't a good enough captain, and all that.  But that's not what I'm talking about.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I think there still would be, short of him being Sidney Crosby or something, especially due to the trade that brought him here.  But like I said earlier, even the best players can be on teams that still fail to contend, but that doesn't take away from how good they are.  Obviously it is debatable whether keeping him or trading him is in the best interests of the team, but I don't think it takes away from how great of a player he is that it is up for debate.

 

[pnjunction]

Kessel will be fine, once he starts scoring again, people will forget about this.

The fact that he can walk for nothing at the end of next season is there regardless of how well or poorly he's playing.

Actually if you think you can lock him down for 7-8 years AND get some good picks in the next couple of years...it's better if he's not too good in the meantime...better picks and lower price. (nightmare scenario: Kessel has 40 goals at the deadline next year, we are in the playoff race, we keep him, finish 9th, he asks for a king's ransom and we either pay it or let him walk...and we all know how easily the leafs can turn nightmares to reality...like trading the 1st and finally tanking).

On the other hand if you want to move him for a small fortune you would want him to be red hot for a while.  He's already got catching up to do if he want to be as hot as last season though.  However if Toronto is still in the basement and Kessel is red hot, the trade talk will be flying more than ever...

So no a few goals will not make it go away, I think it only goes away if Toronto starts looking like the playoff team it was supposed to be 4 years ago when he was brought in to this mess.

 

[Derk]

Good ol' Cox, trying to stir up news where there isn't any. This is just like last week when he suggested that Gretzky should be the next President of the Leafs and all of a sudden the next 20-20 update had his opinion / speculation as the lead news story.

Smoke and mirrors folks. Interesting topic to discuss on a message board, but no news here.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

So no a few goals will not make it go away, I think it only goes away if Toronto starts looking like the playoff team it was supposed to be 4 years ago when he was brought in to this mess.

Wait a minute...Toronto was suppose to be a playoff team 4 years ago?