Phil Kessel

[sickbeast]

I think they should keep Phil Kessel and then trade him at the trade deadline if we don't make the playoffs.

The same could be said for other Leafs players like Dion Phaneuf.

 

[pnjunction]

So no a few goals will not make it go away, I think it only goes away if Toronto starts looking like the playoff team it was supposed to be 4 years ago when he was brought in to this mess.

Wait a minute...Toronto was suppose to be a playoff team 4 years ago?

I don't think you throw your 1st's around for assets if you think you're going to be in the basement. 

Burke's plan seems to have been for Kessel and the UFA d-men signings (Beauchemin, Komisarek) to push us into playoff territory and make losing those 1sts sting less.  It failed spectacularly.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

Kessel will be fine, once he starts scoring again, people will forget about this.

The fact that he can walk for nothing at the end of next season is there regardless of how well or poorly he's playing.

I'm not that worried that Kessel isn't going to sign, or not let the Leafs know his intentions in good enough time to trade him. Either way the Leafs win the way I see it, he'll return a good package, or he'll stay and be part of the solution, by scoring goals like he does.

 

[Britishbulldog]

So no a few goals will not make it go away, I think it only goes away if Toronto starts looking like the playoff team it was supposed to be 4 years ago when he was brought in to this mess.

Wait a minute...Toronto was suppose to be a playoff team 4 years ago?

I don't think you throw your 1st's around for assets if you think you're going to be in the basement. 

Burke's plan seems to have been for Kessel and the UFA d-men signings (Beauchemin, Komisarek) to push us into playoff territory and make losing those 1sts sting less.  It failed spectacularly.

I agree completely.  Burke thought the Leafs were a playoff team so he pulled the trigger on a top offensive winger and got burned badly by being so wrong.

As I said in the 'Brian Burke Fired' thread :

If the Leafs had simply made the playoffs the 2010 draft year, the players selected around the 16th spot had names like Derek Forbort, Vladimir Tarasenko and Joey Hishon. 

If the Leafs had simply made the playoffs the 2011 draft year, the players selected around the 16th spot had names like Joel Armia, J. T. Miller and Jamie Oleksiak. 

If the trade had been Kessel @ a ppg for Joey Hishon and Joel Armia it would have been a much different story  but...like Z B-B McFate said...Kessel was NOT a franchise player anyway.

 

[mc]

We gave up three picks to get Kessel and those picks have proved what a mass overpayment they were. But we all know that already.

Currently, I think, if Kessel was shopped, we *might* get a first round pick in return and that too NOT from a mediocre team - a contender, so that pick will easily be either 30 or 29. Because Kessel is a complimentary player. Not a centre piece. He is the last piece of the puzzle for a contender. Not someone you build around. Four years have taught us that. His scoring hasn't lifted the Leafs from the leagues' basement standings.

Sidney Crosby's scoring didn't lift Pittsburgh from the leagues basement.

Ummm, Crosby wasn't drafted because he could score. Yes thats a good thing to have. He was drafted so that they could build a team around him. And in four years they did and won the cup. Cant say that about Toronto and that is why all this talk has resurfaced.

Kessel is a scoring machine. What Burke gave up from him is what people give up for a center piece player.

 

[Bender]

We gave up three picks to get Kessel and those picks have proved what a mass overpayment they were. But we all know that already.

Currently, I think, if Kessel was shopped, we *might* get a first round pick in return and that too NOT from a mediocre team - a contender, so that pick will easily be either 30 or 29. Because Kessel is a complimentary player. Not a centre piece. He is the last piece of the puzzle for a contender. Not someone you build around. Four years have taught us that. His scoring hasn't lifted the Leafs from the leagues' basement standings.

A first round pick is about 50/50 whether they do much in the NHL. A low 1st round pick is less than that. Kessel isn't a 50/50 possibility of whether he'll play in the NHL. Ignoring chance of injury every player has, he's a proven 30+ goal scorer. So he's likely to attract more than that. Remember, with Boston, he'd had one good season. He's since proven that wasn't a fluke.

Kaberle got a 1st round pick & Joe Colborne (1st round pick prospect) and a conditional 2nd round pick (lowish picks because Boston was near the top of the league). Dmen are worth more than wingers but Kessel has age on his side. So that's roughly what one could expect for Kessel given a few teams would be bidding - probably more for the condition if he re-signs.

EDIT: rather than nailing down what exactly his  value is with the above, as I really need to give it more thought, the point is that I think Kessel is worth much more than a low 1st round pick.

Its funny how much we undervalue Kessel's worth due to the trade history. It's almost comical.

 

[bustaheims]

Ummm, Crosby wasn't drafted because he could score. Yes thats a good thing to have. He was drafted so that they could build a team around him. And in four years they did and won the cup. Cant say that about Toronto and that is why all this talk has resurfaced.

That's among the most absurd things I've ever read. If Crosby couldn't score, there'd be no sense in building a team around him. He was 100% drafted because of his ability to be a dominant offensive player. Being able to build a Stanley Cup winning team around him was an additional benefit.

Players are drafted because of their abilities, not because of the team's ability to build around them.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

We gave up three picks to get Kessel and those picks have proved what a mass overpayment they were. But we all know that already.

Currently, I think, if Kessel was shopped, we *might* get a first round pick in return and that too NOT from a mediocre team - a contender, so that pick will easily be either 30 or 29. Because Kessel is a complimentary player. Not a centre piece. He is the last piece of the puzzle for a contender. Not someone you build around. Four years have taught us that. His scoring hasn't lifted the Leafs from the leagues' basement standings.

Sidney Crosby's scoring didn't lift Pittsburgh from the leagues basement.

Ummm, Crosby wasn't drafted because he could score. Yes thats a good thing to have. He was drafted so that they could build a team around him. And in four years they did and won the cup. Cant say that about Toronto and that is why all this talk has resurfaced.

Kessel is a scoring machine. What Burke gave up from him is what people give up for a center piece player.

And he scored over 100 pts in his first season and they finished last.  You said Kessel's scoring couldn't lift the Leafs, and Crosby's scoring couldn't lift the Pens - they were only 'lifted' when the rest of the team got better around him.

 

[TML fan]

We gave up three picks to get Kessel and those picks have proved what a mass overpayment they were. But we all know that already.

Currently, I think, if Kessel was shopped, we *might* get a first round pick in return and that too NOT from a mediocre team - a contender, so that pick will easily be either 30 or 29. Because Kessel is a complimentary player. Not a centre piece. He is the last piece of the puzzle for a contender. Not someone you build around. Four years have taught us that. His scoring hasn't lifted the Leafs from the leagues' basement standings.

Sidney Crosby's scoring didn't lift Pittsburgh from the leagues basement.

Ummm, Crosby wasn't drafted because he could score. Yes thats a good thing to have. He was drafted so that they could build a team around him. And in four years they did and won the cup. Cant say that about Toronto and that is why all this talk has resurfaced.

Kessel is a scoring machine. What Burke gave up from him is what people give up for a center piece player.

And he scored over 100 pts in his first season and they finished last.  You said Kessel's scoring couldn't lift the Leafs, and Crosby's scoring couldn't lift the Pens - they were only 'lifted' when the rest of the team got better around him.

So then, it seems to me that it isn't Kessel that should be moved, it's everyone else.

 

[Corn Flake]

We gave up three picks to get Kessel and those picks have proved what a mass overpayment they were. But we all know that already.

Currently, I think, if Kessel was shopped, we *might* get a first round pick in return and that too NOT from a mediocre team - a contender, so that pick will easily be either 30 or 29. Because Kessel is a complimentary player. Not a centre piece. He is the last piece of the puzzle for a contender. Not someone you build around. Four years have taught us that. His scoring hasn't lifted the Leafs from the leagues' basement standings.

A first round pick is about 50/50 whether they do much in the NHL. A low 1st round pick is less than that. Kessel isn't a 50/50 possibility of whether he'll play in the NHL. Ignoring chance of injury every player has, he's a proven 30+ goal scorer. So he's likely to attract more than that. Remember, with Boston, he'd had one good season. He's since proven that wasn't a fluke.

Kaberle got a 1st round pick & Joe Colborne (1st round pick prospect) and a conditional 2nd round pick (lowish picks because Boston was near the top of the league). Dmen are worth more than wingers but Kessel has age on his side. So that's roughly what one could expect for Kessel given a few teams would be bidding - probably more for the condition if he re-signs.

EDIT: rather than nailing down what exactly his  value is with the above, as I really need to give it more thought, the point is that I think Kessel is worth much more than a low 1st round pick.

Its funny how much we undervalue Kessel's worth due to the trade history. It's almost comical.

If you took any other PPG player in the league and assessed their value, it probably comes out 4x what Kessel is getting valued at.  Crazy.

 

[cw]

We gave up three picks to get Kessel and those picks have proved what a mass overpayment they were. But we all know that already.

Currently, I think, if Kessel was shopped, we *might* get a first round pick in return and that too NOT from a mediocre team - a contender, so that pick will easily be either 30 or 29. Because Kessel is a complimentary player. Not a centre piece. He is the last piece of the puzzle for a contender. Not someone you build around. Four years have taught us that. His scoring hasn't lifted the Leafs from the leagues' basement standings.

A first round pick is about 50/50 whether they do much in the NHL. A low 1st round pick is less than that. Kessel isn't a 50/50 possibility of whether he'll play in the NHL. Ignoring chance of injury every player has, he's a proven 30+ goal scorer. So he's likely to attract more than that. Remember, with Boston, he'd had one good season. He's since proven that wasn't a fluke.

Kaberle got a 1st round pick & Joe Colborne (1st round pick prospect) and a conditional 2nd round pick (lowish picks because Boston was near the top of the league). Dmen are worth more than wingers but Kessel has age on his side. So that's roughly what one could expect for Kessel given a few teams would be bidding - probably more for the condition if he re-signs.

EDIT: rather than nailing down what exactly his  value is with the above, as I really need to give it more thought, the point is that I think Kessel is worth much more than a low 1st round pick.

Its funny how much we undervalue Kessel's worth due to the trade history. It's almost comical.

Buffalo gave up UFA-2b Gaustad & a 4th for a 1st from Nashville.

Edmonton got a 1st, 3rd and Teubert from LA for Dustin Penner (who was 1yr away from UFA status)

Phoenix for Lombardi, Prust & a 1st (2009 or 2010) for Jokinen (who was 1yr away from UFA status) and a 3rd

I think Kessel right now is worth more than all those players.

 

[TML fan]

But we are looking for top 5 picks right? So if the idea is to get a top 5 pick, wouldn't it make more sense to trade everyone else, and keep Kessel? He's one of our youngest players.

If we are looking to blow up the team, the only players I'm keeping are Kessel, Kadri, van Riemsdyk, Frattin, and Gardiner.

 

[Highlander]

I agree with TML fan.  Those are the untouchables as well as Reilly, I would like to keep Grabbo and Kuli as well

 

[TML fan]

I agree with TML fan.  Those are the untouchables as well as Reilly, I would like to keep Grabbo and Kuli as well

Well I was just speaking of current roster players, but yes Rielly would remain as well.

 

[moon111]

I believe teams should either be in the top 10 or the bottom.  In between gets you no where.  Trades should get you better now or in the future.  Does anyone really think getting a Loungo is the answer?  The painful truth is they probably need a proper rebuild.  I'd trade Kessel if the price was right.

 

[bustaheims]

But we are looking for top 5 picks right? So if the idea is to get a top 5 pick, wouldn't it make more sense to trade everyone else, and keep Kessel? He's one of our youngest players.

If we are looking to blow up the team, the only players I'm keeping are Kessel, Kadri, van Riemsdyk, Frattin, and Gardiner.

I guess it depends on what sort of direction Nonis and co. are planning on taking. If we're talking complete blow up, I'd actually take Kessel off that list, simply because he'd bring back the best return in terms of rebuilding from a barebones POV. If they're just looking to get things back on track, I'd add Lupul, Grabovski, Gunnarsson, Phaneuf and Kulemin to that list. And, of course, any of the prospects still in junior would be completely off limits unless a true elite talent under the age of 25 is coming back.

 

[Bender]

But we are looking for top 5 picks right? So if the idea is to get a top 5 pick, wouldn't it make more sense to trade everyone else, and keep Kessel? He's one of our youngest players.

If we are looking to blow up the team, the only players I'm keeping are Kessel, Kadri, van Riemsdyk, Frattin, and Gardiner.

I guess it depends on what sort of direction Nonis and co. are planning on taking. If we're talking complete blow up, I'd actually take Kessel off that list, simply because he'd bring back the best return in terms of rebuilding from a barebones POV. If they're just looking to get things back on track, I'd add Lupul, Grabovski, Gunnarsson, Phaneuf and Kulemin to that list. And, of course, any of the prospects still in junior would be completely off limits unless a true elite talent under the age of 25 is coming back.

I wouldn't even take a chance on getting a pick back. Picks beyond the top 5 are useless. I'd rather take back a prospect that is a few years away but the team needs a scoring player like Kessel right now to put them over the top.

Unless we can find a way to package the picks we obtain and draft first or second I think it's absolutely not worth it to trade Kessel away for draft picks. And to be honest I think we might be able to do that and draft in the top 5 without trading Kessel at all this year, so really I don't think getting rid of him now serves any purpose unless he can bring back a king's ransom.

I think a guy who finished top 10 in scoring last year and was arguably the third best pure scoring winger in the whole league last year would be worth a lot to a team. If he had the physique of Sundin and the charm of George Clooney people wouldn't be valuing him so poorly.

 

[lamajama]

Arrrgh...I'm guilty of it as I've posted in this thread today but to even
comment on this bullcrap is to give Cox even a smidgen of credibility
and I absolutely hate that turd for the bullcrap he writes.

And the response he gets in Toronto just fuels his drug-induced fantasies.

 

[TML fan]

But we are looking for top 5 picks right? So if the idea is to get a top 5 pick, wouldn't it make more sense to trade everyone else, and keep Kessel? He's one of our youngest players.

If we are looking to blow up the team, the only players I'm keeping are Kessel, Kadri, van Riemsdyk, Frattin, and Gardiner.

I guess it depends on what sort of direction Nonis and co. are planning on taking. If we're talking complete blow up, I'd actually take Kessel off that list, simply because he'd bring back the best return in terms of rebuilding from a barebones POV. If they're just looking to get things back on track, I'd add Lupul, Grabovski, Gunnarsson, Phaneuf and Kulemin to that list. And, of course, any of the prospects still in junior would be completely off limits unless a true elite talent under the age of 25 is coming back.

Ok, I see what you're saying, but here's my issue. The best return isn't necessarily the best option. It just seems to me that the Leafs would be assuming a lot of needless risk. Chances are any team looking to acquire Kessel will not be drafting in the top 5, so that pretty much nullifies the value of any draft pick coming back. Chances are also good that any team with a prospect who has been recognized as a legitimate franchise player would be aware of that fact and be reluctant to give that player up in a trade for Kessel. It seems to me that a team presented with that option would take their chances with what they have, unless they REALLY STRONGLY believed that Kessel was the final piece to their championship puzzle. Seems like a lot of wishful thinking there.

So essentially the Leafs are giving up a sure thing for a lot of maybes for no reason. Given what cw showed us other players have gone for in recent years, it stands to reason that the Leafs have other pieces that could net 1st round picks or prospects and the Leafs could take their chances with them.

Since its been said that Kessel is not enough to elevate the Leafs out of the basement by himself, the subtraction of pretty much every other decent player on the roster should be enough for the Leafs to bottom out and draft in the top 5.

This way, the Leafs are still getting their shot at a franchise player in the draft, but they also still have one of the most dangerous snipers in the league who hasn't even reached his prime, to compliment that player.

 

[jdh1]

If he doesn't want to re-sign here,Nonis may have no other option but to trade him.
By the trading deadline,we should be able to figure out if Reimer or Scrivens is a possible no.1...if not..Kessel might best be dealt for a young no.1 goalie..if that's possible.