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Pietrangelo Watch

You know I always wonder about contracts etc. With the Leafs being cap crunched could they offer AP a contract with say 6-7 million per year and give him some kind of job with the organization after his career is done. Pay him good money as a coach, scout whatever something in the organization and throw in some incentives, endorsement money etc. Money he sacrifices now he'll reap in a few years. Is that an option?
 
azzurri63 said:
You know I always wonder about contracts etc. With the Leafs being cap crunched could they offer AP a contract with say 6-7 million per year and give him some kind of job with the organization after his career is done. Pay him good money as a coach, scout whatever something in the organization and throw in some incentives, endorsement money etc. Money he sacrifices now he'll reap in a few years. Is that an option?
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I hear what you're saying and don't doubt that happens but from my understanding, it's against the rules. 
 
Joe S. said:
The leafs can?t give the players endorsement deals. The players have to seek out those deals themselves.
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But you can bet the Leafs have lots of friends looking for hockey players to push their products.
 
The Maple Leafs emphatically cannot offer side deals for money to be earned at a later date that doesn't count against the cap. Likewise, Bell and Rogers can't start handing out million dollar endorsement contracts to Leafs players.

While I'm sure some people might think they could do so surreptitiously you might as well surmise the Leafs could, likewise, simply not report giving players briefcases full of cash on top of their hockey contracts.

Think whatever you want about the NHL league office and their stewardship of the game, they're not idiots.
 
If anyone is curious, the relevant section of the CBA is Article 26.3. All of the things being suggested are expressly not allowed.
 
The one advantage the Leafs have is the contract structure, namely most teams cannot afford to front end the contract the way Toronto can. This is more attractive to a player, but even more so in uncertain economic circumstances (flat cap, no ticket sales, shorter seasons etc). It helps even the field that favours lower tax jurisdictions (not as big a draw as is usually portrayed because taxation liability is shared among the various jurisdictions where games are played) and the influence of inertia which often influences a player to stay with his current team.

Otherwise, I expect the dollar amount will be the same for most offers because economic exigencies will limit the willingness of ownership to get into a bidding war.

That said, if Torey Krug is turning down $6.5M for 6 years and offers of 7 years x $7.5 are being prepared (as is alleged) then Pietrangelo will ultimately prove to be too expensive for the Leafs.
 
KW Sluggo said:
The one advantage the Leafs have is the contract structure, namely most teams cannot afford to front end the contract the way Toronto can. This is more attractive to a player, but even more so in uncertain economic circumstances (flat cap, no ticket sales, shorter seasons etc). It helps even the field that favours lower tax jurisdictions (not as big a draw as is usually portrayed because taxation liability is shared among the various jurisdictions where games are played) and the influence of inertia which often influences a player to stay with his current team.

Otherwise, I expect the dollar amount will be the same for most offers because economic exigencies will limit the willingness of ownership to get into a bidding war.

That said, if Torey Krug is turning down $6.5M for 6 years and offers of 7 years x $7.5 are being prepared (as is alleged) then Pietrangelo will ultimately prove to be too expensive for the Leafs.
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If anyone gives Krug 7.5 they're insane. Same with Brodie. If he wants 6 mill, see ya later. Leafs can't afford to overpay anyone, including Petro if they go after him.
 
Guilt Trip said:
azzurri63 said:
You know I always wonder about contracts etc. With the Leafs being cap crunched could they offer AP a contract with say 6-7 million per year and give him some kind of job with the organization after his career is done. Pay him good money as a coach, scout whatever something in the organization and throw in some incentives, endorsement money etc. Money he sacrifices now he'll reap in a few years. Is that an option?
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I hear what you're saying and don't doubt that happens but from my understanding, it's against the rules.
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If they were to give him a job after his career with endorsements or some sort of a bonus how can the league prove anything? Pay him handsomely for whatever position they give him.
 
Nik said:
If anyone is curious, the relevant section of the CBA is Article 26.3. All of the things being suggested are expressly not allowed.
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I think there is an asterisks in that article though, something about being absolved from any wrongdoing if a) the team involved is Philadelphia, and b) if said player is Chris Pronger

*If both provisions occur, the player has a right to work for the NHL and also for the team in a scouting and interviewing process while still being signed as a player with a large cap hit for multiple ensuing seasons
 
Also, what's being suggested doesn't make practical sense either. So let's say in negotiations between Pietrangelo's agent and Dubas that something along these lines is proposed. Pietrangelo has a 7 year/63 million offer on the table somewhere but the Leafs offer him 7 years/49 million but also a hush-hush agreement to pay him 15 million over 5 years as a scout once his career is over.

Well, the immediate problem is that the first offer is still more lucrative for the same reason guys want front-loaded deals with signing bonuses. They want that money in their investment accounts toot suite. So in order for the Leafs to make the hidden offer more lucrative they probably would need to pay him over and above the level of the comparative offer elsewhere. So let's say it's 25 million over 5 years in the secret deal.

Well, ok, but if you're Pietrangelo's agent the obvious question there is what mechanism do you have to ensure that 25 million gets paid? You can't very well sign a contract to that effect because, you know, then it becomes evidence. So are you taking Dubas' word? Dubas might not be associated with the Leafs when the secret payments are set to begin. Shanahan? Same deal. Hell, even the Rogers/Bell board members might not be around or they or Tanenbaum may sell the team. And try telling an incoming owner they have to be party to a secretly agreed upon side deal that's A) expensive and B) could seriously damage their team if exposed.

But even ignore that for a second. Remember that the relationship between teams and agents are frequently adversarial. If you're Dubas, do you want to put your professional reputation at stake and likely the chance of ever getting a job in hockey again and then put all that in the hands of an agent? What about AGMs? What if they get hired by other teams? What if your relationship with Pietrangelo himself sours over the years of his deal? And remember, you're taking on all this risk for a couple million dollars in cap savings.

Some of you would not make for very good criminals.
 
Nik said:
Also, what's being suggested doesn't make practical sense either. So let's say in negotiations between Pietrangelo's agent and Dubas that something along these lines is proposed. Pietrangelo has a 7 year/63 million offer on the table somewhere but the Leafs offer him 7 years/49 million but also a hush-hush agreement to pay him 15 million over 5 years as a scout once his career is over.

Well, the immediate problem is that the first offer is still more lucrative for the same reason guys want front-loaded deals with signing bonuses. They want that money in their investment accounts toot suite. So in order for the Leafs to make the hidden offer more lucrative they probably would need to pay him over and above the level of the comparative offer elsewhere. So let's say it's 25 million over 5 years in the secret deal.

Well, ok, but if you're Pietrangelo's agent the obvious question there is what mechanism do you have to ensure that 25 million gets paid? You can't very well sign a contract to that effect because, you know, then it becomes evidence. So are you taking Dubas' word? Dubas might not be associated with the Leafs when the secret payments are set to begin. Shanahan? Same deal. Hell, even the Rogers/Bell board members might not be around or they or Tanenbaum may sell the team. And try telling an incoming owner they have to be party to a secretly agreed upon side deal that's A) expensive and B) could seriously damage their team if exposed.

But even ignore that for a second. Remember that the relationship between teams and agents are frequently adversarial. If you're Dubas, do you want to put your professional reputation at stake and likely the chance of ever getting a job in hockey again and then put all that in the hands of an agent? What about AGMs? What if they get hired by other teams? What if your relationship with Pietrangelo himself sours over the years of his deal? And remember, you're taking on all this risk for a couple million dollars in cap savings.

Some of you would not make for very good criminals.
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What if there's a secret handshake and password?  :o #dubaspromised
 
Say what you will about the league's leadership and all that, but they really did (over the course of the last few negotiations) build a CBA that covers off almost any significant loophole in terms of player salaries.
 
Nik said:
Some of you would not make for very good criminals.
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Plus the agent would get a smaller fee.

I'm honestly not sure why you're bothering to explain why it doesn't make sense. Slow day?  8)
 
Bullfrog said:
I'm honestly not sure why you're bothering to explain why it doesn't make sense. Slow day?  8)
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Evidence is piling up that my life is in a tailspin. I'll keep you updated.

Seriously though, that sort of thing has been brought up before and I don't think I've gone into it much. Unlike, say, the "Any free agent the Leafs sign will make millions in endorsements" thing I've talked about it being against the rules but not why it doesn't make sense on top of that.
 
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/1314641114578800640

Would have been weird if they hadn't spoken to him.
 
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