Pietrangelo Watch

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

We would have Rielly/Pietrangelo for 2 years, then hope Sandin can be ready in 2022/2023 to take over a bigger role.  Bottom 6 they have to entice those bargain bin deals for vets like Spezza took this year. I'm old, I don't want to wait another decade.

You think the Leafs are a Pietrangelo away from winning a cup? 

 

[Zee]

We would have Rielly/Pietrangelo for 2 years, then hope Sandin can be ready in 2022/2023 to take over a bigger role.  Bottom 6 they have to entice those bargain bin deals for vets like Spezza took this year. I'm old, I don't want to wait another decade.

You think the Leafs are a Pietrangelo away from winning a cup?

Why not? The friggin Islanders nearly made it to the final and the Stars did. Get on a roll at the right time and you never know. A guy like Pietrangelo would soak up alot of minutes

 

[Guilt Trip]

I'm not sure you can do it with Kerfoot and Johnsson.

You can do it.. Challenging but you can make it work if he comes in at 8 mill.
This is a little different then the one I did yesterday. You could potentially have Dermott if you could sign  Mikheyev and Rodrigues to 1.25 mill deals. Of course the 4th line could even go cheaper if need be.

Hyman(2.25) Matthews(11,634,000) Marner(10,893,000)
Robertson(821,667) JT(11) Nylander(6,962,366)
Mikheyev(1.5) Engvall(1.25) Barabanov(925)
Rodrigues(1.5) Spezza(1) Simmonds(1)


Rielly(5) Pietrangelo(8mill)
Muzz(5.625) Holl(2)
Sandin(894,167) Lehtonen(925)


Freddie(5) Campbell(1.65)

plus 1.2 for Kessel for a total of 81,030,200 and would leave the Leafs with $469,800 in cap space.

 

[Guilt Trip]

We would have Rielly/Pietrangelo for 2 years, then hope Sandin can be ready in 2022/2023 to take over a bigger role.  Bottom 6 they have to entice those bargain bin deals for vets like Spezza took this year. I'm old, I don't want to wait another decade.

You think the Leafs are a Pietrangelo away from winning a cup?

Why not? The friggin Islanders nearly made it to the final and the Stars did. Get on a roll at the right time and you never know. A guy like Pietrangelo would soak up alot of minutes

Agree..AP could make a huge difference. Get the forwards to buy in a little more like they did during the playoffs and who knows? If the Leafs got past Boston last year, they may have been the team going to the finals. We don't know.

 

[bustaheims]

Agree..AP could make a huge difference. Get the forwards to buy in a little more like they did during the playoffs and who knows? If the Leafs got past Boston last year, they may have been the team going to the finals. We don't know.

Adding him to the roster as-is could make a huge difference. Having to move out significant pieces or torpedo the team's depth upfront to bring him in? I'm not sure that actually moves the needle in any significant way.

 

[Zee]

Agree..AP could make a huge difference. Get the forwards to buy in a little more like they did during the playoffs and who knows? If the Leafs got past Boston last year, they may have been the team going to the finals. We don't know.

Adding him to the roster as-is could make a huge difference. Having to move out significant pieces or torpedo the team's depth upfront to bring him in? I'm not sure that actually moves the needle in any significant way.

I guess it depends how good Robertson, Barabanov will be as both will be on the cheap.  Then if you bring back Spezza and some other vet pieces on the cheap you have your bottom 6.  Not ideal, but the main offensive thrust of the team will come from the top 2 lines anyway, if your bottom 6 can not get outscored you're ahead of the game.

If they dump Johnsson and Kerfoot, provided they can sign Rodridgues and Mikheyev to cheap deals the lines look something like:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Mikheyev-Tavares-Marner
Robertson-Rodrigues-Barabanov
unknown-Spezza-unknown

 

[L K]

Agree..AP could make a huge difference. Get the forwards to buy in a little more like they did during the playoffs and who knows? If the Leafs got past Boston last year, they may have been the team going to the finals. We don't know.

Adding him to the roster as-is could make a huge difference. Having to move out significant pieces or torpedo the team's depth upfront to bring him in? I'm not sure that actually moves the needle in any significant way.

It is interesting as we just came off a playoff series where the Leafs outplayed Columbus and lost because they had no scoring depth. 

They got 17 points out of Tavares/Matthews/Marner/Nylander.  They got 8 points from the other 8 forwards.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Agree..AP could make a huge difference. Get the forwards to buy in a little more like they did during the playoffs and who knows? If the Leafs got past Boston last year, they may have been the team going to the finals. We don't know.

Adding him to the roster as-is could make a huge difference. Having to move out significant pieces or torpedo the team's depth upfront to bring him in? I'm not sure that actually moves the needle in any significant way.

That's the kicker isn't it? I don't consider Kerfoot and Johnsson significant though. From a points view, I don't think losing them hurts too bad offensively. That's what Dubas and Co have to figure out if AP gets to market. Even if the Leafs go after say TJ Brodie, or any other D man via ufa or trade, you may still have to move one of those guys. You also have to be very careful not to overpay because next year you have Hyman/Freddie up and the year after that it's Rielly. You can't overpay for a "good" player and expect those guys to take a haircut. If it's a guy like AP, it's a different scenario according to Mike Johnson. I actually think Dubas would talk to the core guys about AP like he did when JT was available. If you're moving a big 4 piece like Nylander you have to get a significant D man in return. Nylander+ for Parayko kind of thing.

 

[Zee]

Agree..AP could make a huge difference. Get the forwards to buy in a little more like they did during the playoffs and who knows? If the Leafs got past Boston last year, they may have been the team going to the finals. We don't know.

Adding him to the roster as-is could make a huge difference. Having to move out significant pieces or torpedo the team's depth upfront to bring him in? I'm not sure that actually moves the needle in any significant way.

It is interesting as we just came off a playoff series where the Leafs outplayed Columbus and lost because they had no scoring depth. 

They got 17 points out of Tavares/Matthews/Marner/Nylander.  They got 8 points from the other 8 forwards.

It was more to the point the Leafs lost because they shot 2% for the entire series which historically isn't going to happen all the time.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Agree..AP could make a huge difference. Get the forwards to buy in a little more like they did during the playoffs and who knows? If the Leafs got past Boston last year, they may have been the team going to the finals. We don't know.

Adding him to the roster as-is could make a huge difference. Having to move out significant pieces or torpedo the team's depth upfront to bring him in? I'm not sure that actually moves the needle in any significant way.

It is interesting as we just came off a playoff series where the Leafs outplayed Columbus and lost because they had no scoring depth. 

They got 17 points out of Tavares/Matthews/Marner/Nylander.  They got 8 points from the other 8 forwards.

It was more to the point the Leafs lost because they shot 2% for the entire series which historically isn't going to happen all the time.

Agree with Zee here. Leafs had the chances, but couldn't bury them.

 

[Joe S.]

I don?t know why we put ourselves through this year after year. I know it?s a message board and speculation is what we strive on, but let?s be honest with ourselves, other than Tavares, the top free agent just doesn?t come to Toronto.

Maybe I?m just getting old and grumpy, but using Toronto and negotiating leverage has just gotten tiresome for me.

 

[Frank E]

I don?t know why we put ourselves through this year after year. I know it?s a message board and speculation is what we strive on, but let?s be honest with ourselves, other than Tavares, the top free agent just doesn?t come to Toronto.

Maybe I?m just getting old and grumpy, but using Toronto and negotiating leverage has just gotten tiresome for me.

When do we get to discuss Thornton signing with the Leafs for $750K?

 

[Joe S.]

When do we get to discuss Thornton signing with the Leafs for $750K?

Immediately!

Actually it?s funny I remember the speculation around here that back when he was in Boston he was going to end up being a maple leaf. Along with tony amonte and a whole bunch of other players I can?t remember.

I think the only year things went nuts for the leafs is when they got Peca, Lindros and Alison all in the same season. Of course we got the bizarro versions of those players but fun times nonetheless.

And that ends today?s edition of random thoughts that went nowhere.

 

[Zee]

I don?t know why we put ourselves through this year after year. I know it?s a message board and speculation is what we strive on, but let?s be honest with ourselves, other than Tavares, the top free agent just doesn?t come to Toronto.

Maybe I?m just getting old and grumpy, but using Toronto and negotiating leverage has just gotten tiresome for me.

Did you not read my "coming home, coming home" lyrics Mr. Grumpy?  He's coming home!

 

[Kin]

I don?t know why we put ourselves through this year after year. I know it?s a message board and speculation is what we strive on, but let?s be honest with ourselves, other than Tavares, the top free agent just doesn?t come to Toronto.

Maybe I?m just getting old and grumpy, but using Toronto and negotiating leverage has just gotten tiresome for me.

Thing is, Toronto has probably done as well as anyone in my time as a hockey fan at attracting free agents. The thing of it is though is that people way oversell the "he's a local guy, so he's going to sign here" thing.

I agree it's annoying when every media report has the Leafs involved and I think the "he's a local guy so he's dying to play here" thing is overblown but guys like Cujo, Mogilny, Gary Roberts, Clarkson(who sucked but was a highly sought after free agent), heck, even Gretzky did agree to come here.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I don?t know why we put ourselves through this year after year. I know it?s a message board and speculation is what we strive on, but let?s be honest with ourselves, other than Tavares, the top free agent just doesn?t come to Toronto.

Maybe I?m just getting old and grumpy, but using Toronto and negotiating leverage has just gotten tiresome for me.

When do we get to discuss Thornton signing with the Leafs for $750K?

We can only handle one UFA at a time. Joe is next!

 

[Zee]

 

[wnc096]

I don?t know why we put ourselves through this year after year. I know it?s a message board and speculation is what we strive on, but let?s be honest with ourselves, other than Tavares, the top free agent just doesn?t come to Toronto.

Maybe I?m just getting old and grumpy, but using Toronto and negotiating leverage has just gotten tiresome for me.

Thing is, Toronto has probably done as well as anyone in my time as a hockey fan at attracting free agents. The thing of it is though is that people way oversell the "he's a local guy, so he's going to sign here" thing.

I agree it's annoying when every media report has the Leafs involved and I think the "he's a local guy so he's dying to play here" thing is overblown but guys like Cujo, Mogilny, Gary Roberts, Clarkson(who sucked but was a highly sought after free agent), heck, even Gretzky did agree to come here.

Too bad Dubas cant use any leverage on cap hits.  He pays top AAV, for less term, and gives massive signing bonuses so they get all their money up front.  I love Matthews...but in no universe should he be paid 865k less than Connor Mcdavid...for LESS term.  Its baffling really.   

 

[Hobbes]

I don?t know why we put ourselves through this year after year. I know it?s a message board and speculation is what we strive on, but let?s be honest with ourselves, other than Tavares, the top free agent just doesn?t come to Toronto.

Maybe I?m just getting old and grumpy, but using Toronto and negotiating leverage has just gotten tiresome for me.

Thing is, Toronto has probably done as well as anyone in my time as a hockey fan at attracting free agents. The thing of it is though is that people way oversell the "he's a local guy, so he's going to sign here" thing.

I agree it's annoying when every media report has the Leafs involved and I think the "he's a local guy so he's dying to play here" thing is overblown but guys like Cujo, Mogilny, Gary Roberts, Clarkson(who sucked but was a highly sought after free agent), heck, even Gretzky did agree to come here.

Too bad Dubas cant use any leverage on cap hits.  He pays top AAV, for less term, and gives massive signing bonuses so they get all their money up front.  I love Matthews...but in no universe should he be paid 865k less than Connor Mcdavid...for LESS term.  Its baffling really. 

Up until this season comparing dollars for dollars of contracts is a recipe for misunderstanding. You need to be comparing their relative "% of cap in the year they sign" to get any sort of meaningful indication. Nobody expected a multi-year flat cap situation when any of those contracts were signed, either. It's going to be really interesting to see how that affects the upcoming free-agency.

McDavid: 16.7% of cap when he signed
Matthews: 14.63%

If McDavid had signed the same year as Matthews his would have been about $13.28 AAV (1.5M more than Matthews). I don't think that's nearly as out of line as you're suggesting.

 

[Bender]

I don?t know why we put ourselves through this year after year. I know it?s a message board and speculation is what we strive on, but let?s be honest with ourselves, other than Tavares, the top free agent just doesn?t come to Toronto.

Maybe I?m just getting old and grumpy, but using Toronto and negotiating leverage has just gotten tiresome for me.

Thing is, Toronto has probably done as well as anyone in my time as a hockey fan at attracting free agents. The thing of it is though is that people way oversell the "he's a local guy, so he's going to sign here" thing.

I agree it's annoying when every media report has the Leafs involved and I think the "he's a local guy so he's dying to play here" thing is overblown but guys like Cujo, Mogilny, Gary Roberts, Clarkson(who sucked but was a highly sought after free agent), heck, even Gretzky did agree to come here.

Too bad Dubas cant use any leverage on cap hits.  He pays top AAV, for less term, and gives massive signing bonuses so they get all their money up front.  I love Matthews...but in no universe should he be paid 865k less than Connor Mcdavid...for LESS term.  Its baffling really. 

Up until this season comparing dollars for dollars of contracts is a recipe for misunderstanding. You need to be comparing their relative "% of cap in the year they sign" to get any sort of meaningful indication. Nobody expected a multi-year flat cap situation when any of those contracts were signed, either. It's going to be really interesting to see how that affects the upcoming free-agency.

McDavid: 16.7% of cap when he signed
Matthews: 14.63%

If McDavid had signed the same year as Matthews his would have been about $13.28 AAV (1.5M more than Matthews). I don't think that's nearly as out of line as you're suggesting.

I think that's pretty fair actually. I also think the Nylander contract is looking more and more like a bargain every day. Where we have a problem I think is with Mitch and the fact that we signed Tavares. Once you signed Tavares I think that forced out one of Marner or Nylander and I think we'll see that happening - you can't win without depth. Ultimately we need to keep rolling our roster and start trading players and get value back as we've dug a pretty sizable hole with Marleau/Zaitsev and not recouping assets on expiring contracts.