Random rumours

[Kin]

While it's true that Phil Kessel is no defensive stalward, it seems that he's at least "bought in" - many of us have seen a transformation in his backchecking and covering for the d-man in the last year or two.

I think Kessel has gotten better at it, sure, but Yakupov said that he thinks that's in his future as well, just that it's not his favourite part of the game. I'm sure if you asked Phil Kessel that and he answered honestly that once you'd translated it from Mumblecore-English the answer would be just about the same.

 

[Kin]

Well, no, it's not. The KHL is an option available to players of all nationalities and the scenario you're talking about has never really played itself out.

It has, just with less prominent names. Kaigarodov, for instance, left for the KHL because he was unhappy with his ice time and didn't want to play in the AHL.

That wasn't really that same scenario though, was it? Kaigarodov left Russia at 23 specifically to play in the NHL and returned when that didn't seem to be in the cards. It's not quite the same as someone who's been in NA for years leaving for the KHL because of a bumpy road with the coach.

 

[ZBBM]

The problem here is that he doesn't fit Carlyle's psych profile, as noted in the bomb pic posted awhile back.  Which is the big problem I have with fitting a team around a current coach rather than vice versa.  But I suppose this is what Nonis wants too, so probably my carping has no basis.  Still.

Maybe I missed it but what is Carlyle's psych profile? What notable attributes does Teemu Selanne have that Yakupov doesn't? I mean, we all seem to accept that Randy Carlyle is alright with Phil Kessel on the team despite him not being a world class defensive player or forechecker.

Well, part of his profile is to look furtively from side to side with his beady little eyes while maintaining a magnificently pained look on his face.  Which translates into a guy who demands a lot of players and likes to sit those who, like Kadri, are full of self-wonderfulment.  So yeah, once we've cut through PK's Mumblecore-English (good one) and see that he'd rather play pingpong than do endless reps and protein shakes, what we end up with is that RC's psych profile is that he obviously doesn't like Russians, especially bello-Russians like Garbofsky.

 

[bustaheims]

That wasn't really that same scenario though, was it? Kaigarodov left Russia at 23 specifically to play in the NHL and returned when that didn't seem to be in the cards. It's not quite the same as someone who's been in NA for years leaving for the KHL because of a bumpy road with the coach.

But the scenario didn't specify "played in NA for years." Just because someone's played on this side of the ocean for a few seasons doesn't mean they're not going to head back home when they hit their first real bumps in the road. I happen to think it's an issue for Yakupov. While I don't think he'll leave mid-season or anything like that, it wouldn't shock me in the slightest if he went the same route as Radulov did.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I happen to think it's an issue for Yakupov.

But why?  Other than his nationality.

 

[bustaheims]

But why?  Other than his nationality.

There's been some questions about his attitude since before he was drafted, and that plays into it a bit. It's not just a Russian thing. I don't get the same feeling about other high ranked Russian prospects that were drafted recently. It's just a feeling I have with Yakupov. I guess I just see a number of parallels between him and Radulov, and that raises a red flag for me.

 

[bustaheims]

Just for the record, another example of a young player leaving over issues with their coach/ice time/having to play in the AHL is Alexander Burmistrov. So, while it might not be as widespread an issue as it's sometimes made out to be, it is something that does happen.

 

[Kin]

But the scenario didn't specify "played in NA for years."

No, but it was referenced in the context of reduced ice time or a demotion being used as a motivational/development tool as opposed to a case where it's questionable as to whether or not a guy can actually play in the NHL. Nobody doubts that Yakupov is good enough to play in the NHL and I think we'd both agree that there are teams around the league that don't have the surfeit of young talent that the Oilers do where Yakupov, issues and all, would just be trotted out there night after night. I think that's fundamentally different than a situation where a guy is a questionable NHL prospect getting sent down and choosing to go back to the KHL over that question mark.

While I don't think he'll leave mid-season or anything like that, it wouldn't shock me in the slightest if he went the same route as Radulov did.

But Radulov was a case of money winning out. I can see that, especially if as is the case with Kovalchuk the KHL becomes more lucrative than the NHL is for top players, but I don't see it as a response to adversity.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

But why?  Other than his nationality.

There's been some questions about his attitude since before he was drafted, and that plays into it a bit. It's not just a Russian thing. I don't get the same feeling about other high ranked Russian prospects that were drafted recently. It's just a feeling I have with Yakupov. I guess I just see a number of parallels between him and Radulov, and that raises a red flag for me.

I haven't in depth researched it since I'm at work, but I always thought going into the draft Yakupov had a pretty positive outlook about playing in North America and wanting to play in the NHL.  I very likely could be remembering this wrong, or thinking of another player, but that was my impression of it.

 

[Jalili]

But why?  Other than his nationality.

There's been some questions about his attitude since before he was drafted, and that plays into it a bit. It's not just a Russian thing. I don't get the same feeling about other high ranked Russian prospects that were drafted recently. It's just a feeling I have with Yakupov. I guess I just see a number of parallels between him and Radulov, and that raises a red flag for me.

I haven't in depth researched it since I'm at work, but I always thought going into the draft Yakupov had a pretty positive outlook about playing in North America and wanting to play in the NHL.  I very likely could be remembering this wrong, or thinking of another player, but that was my impression of it.

That was my impression as well. Also interesting to note, FWIW, that Yakupov's not an ethnic Russian.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I think there are also differences between someone like Radulov and Yakupov.  Radulov came over at 18 to play in the QMJHL after he was drafted by the Predators in 2004.  The KHL was also not an option at that time for Radulov.

Yakupov came over at 17 at a time when the KHL was already a draw for NHL/Russian players.  Why bother coming over at such a young age at all then?  According to this article in THN, he came over in order to make the NHL:

Yakupov plied his craft in Russia last season with his hometown Reaktor Nizhnekamsk of the MHL, Russia?s junior league, but felt making the jump to the OHL would bring him closer to his ultimate goal of playing in the NHL

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/37124-VIDEO-Sarnia-Stings-dynamic-Russian-prospects-turning-heads-in-the-OHL.html

 

[Kin]

And I think that's where we come back to it being somewhat irrelevant that Yakupov is Russian. I don't think anyone denies the possibility that Yakupov could get fed up in Edmonton and want to go somewhere else but I think that's relatively true of just about any young player regardless of where they're from. I'd say we've had more high profile examples of North American born players refusing to sign with the team that drafted them for whatever reasons than we have of Russian players bolting to the KHL in recent years.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

The top KHL teams seem to target a few players each year and try and lure them back to the KHL with these franchise type contracts, I wonder if Yakupov would be targeted A) because he is Russian and B) because of his publicized awkward predicament in Edmonton.

If Yak continues to get 3rd line minutes and criticism from his coach, a $9 million per year tax free contract in Russia might be hard to turn down.

Again, I don't think this is a case of the player really being overly susceptible as it is a case of him being the type of 'name' that the KHL might target.

 

[Kin]

If Yak continues to get 3rd line minutes and criticism from his coach, a $9 million per year tax free contract in Russia might be hard to turn down.

I think there's a measure of truth to that but I think that if you believe that, and it's not crazy to, then I would think you'd also have to think that money, which is the sort of money that Yakupov is unlikely to make even with 5 or 6 years of All-Star play, would be hard to turn down regardless.

 

[moon111]

The problem here is that he doesn't fit Carlyle's psych profile, as noted in the bomb pic posted awhile back.  Which is the big problem I have with fitting a team around a current coach rather than vice versa.  But I suppose this is what Nonis wants too, so probably my carping has no basis.  Still.

Maybe I missed it but what is Carlyle's psych profile? What notable attributes does Teemu Selanne have that Yakupov doesn't? I mean, we all seem to accept that Randy Carlyle is alright with Phil Kessel on the team despite him not being a world class defensive player or forechecker.

Sisu

 

[MetalRaven]

And I think that's where we come back to it being somewhat irrelevant that Yakupov is Russian. I don't think anyone denies the possibility that Yakupov could get fed up in Edmonton and want to go somewhere else but I think that's relatively true of just about any young player regardless of where they're from. I'd say we've had more high profile examples of North American born players refusing to sign with the team that drafted them for whatever reasons than we have of Russian players bolting to the KHL in recent years.

I like that you used the word somewhat, because I feel there are two reasons that russians are more inclined to return home. Thats number one, its home...family can come watch you succeed as one example of many comforts of being back where you grew up. Number two...and this is the one that concerns me a bit about Yakupov, bigger ice. Finesse players have more room to be finesse-y. He can take a handful of skate strides without worry that hes gonna end up on his behind. Russian players grew up with the bigger ice surface (some not all obviously)...Anyway my point being its not exactly Cherry-esque prejudism to assume a Russian player may go back to Russia. On the flip-side your point about it not being so common an occurrence as to be something to be concerned about is spot on. Id be more concerned about injury history and fitness when deciding on a player, his possible decision to go to the KHL wouldn't factor in.

 

[Jalili]

I think the threat of the KHL becomes real when Yakupov shows that he likely won't make it in the NHL as an impact player.

If things continue to go sour in Edmonton, then he probably gets traded some time in the future, and how he plays on his next team determines whether he looks at going back to KHL. That's just a bunch of guesswork though.

Right now it's still early; although if I were an Oilers fan I'd be pretty discouraged. What an inept organization.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

What's to be discouraged about?  As that link I posted shows, he's right in the same points range through his first 53 games (when that list was done) as the majority of the last 10 1st overall picks.

Absolutely no reason to let a handful of games this season discourage you about a player like that.

 

[Tigger]

I have no idea why the Leafs would be interested in Kulikov. He's a pretty similar player to Gardiner and Rielly. So the last thing that the Leafs need right now.

Interesting. I don't know Kulikov at all. Curious as to why they brought in Brennan this year as well, as he's along the same mold too.

Kulikov fights and hits as well, Carlyle would love him. He doesn't skate as well as Jake but if the Leafs could trade for him from a surplus of wingers, etc. ( yeah, that's an important detail, the how... ) and then acquire the young Russian sniper in a deal for Gardiner, etc.? Yup.

I'd like to think having a role model like Kulemin in the mix would be good for them too but I don't know.

 

[Britishbulldog]

I have no idea why the Leafs would be interested in Kulikov. He's a pretty similar player to Gardiner and Rielly. So the last thing that the Leafs need right now.

I'm with you on that.

I can't see why we would have a need for him, unless Gardiner is being shopped and you're expecting Kulikov to replace him.

Gardiner, Reilly and as Redleaf mentioned, Brennan are all the same mold.

If it was Florida who the Leafs were courting, it would be young stay at home RH defense man Erik Gudbranson I would suggest.  I have read in a couple of places that Florida is lacking a blue chip offensive defense man in their system.

I don't know how Gudbranson's game has progressed as I see he is getting low icetime some games this year but I figure he would at the least be an 'Adam McQuaid' level dman but might top out as 3rd on the depth chart playing as a tough stay at home guy on one of the top 2 pairings.