Randy Carlyle/Leaf Coach thread

[Kin]

Not sure if the Wings would let Babcock go before his contract expires, but I would definitely try.

Try what?

Luring him away from the Wings.

No, I got that. I mean like, specifically, what do you think the Leafs should do while Babcock is under contract to the Red Wings? Because they can't make him offers. They can't offer the Red Wings inducements. So...what's left?

 

[Derk]

Not sure if the Wings would let Babcock go before his contract expires, but I would definitely try.

Try what?

Luring him away from the Wings.

No, I got that. I mean like, specifically, what do you think the Leafs should do while Babcock is under contract to the Red Wings? Because they can't make him offers. They can't offer the Red Wings inducements. So...what's left?

Have Shanahan lobby the league for a 24-hour moratorium on tampering?

 

[Highlander]

thanks god Peter the Violett is in for Nashville, personally I think he not the coach for us and will not do well with the Preds?.he does have the looks for TV announcer however so will probably end up there or polishing Randy's gold toaster.

 

[bakeapples]

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock people. Time's tickin' away.

 

[2badknees]

I could actually envision the Babcock thing happening, if he's truly looking to move on from Detroit and get paid in the process.

Salary would be no doubt just north of ridiculous, and he wouldn't exactly be facing lofty expectations compared to coaching a currently competitive team.

 

[lamajama]

and then Babcock signs with another team.. We have Carlyle, no McDavid cause we finished about 14th in the league and the Leafs do what we do best

No. This time it will go as smooth as a road full of pot holes and sink holes. 

So what you're saying is it will be SNAFU.

 

[Peter D.]

I'd like to see Muller as an assistant coach if he doesn't end up getting another head coaching job.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Re: Babcock

@HeleneStJames

Mike Babcock says not worried about negotiating for extension, will either remain coach of Red Wings or be assistant at U of M/ Berenson

 

[bustaheims]

There's also this from MacLean (which, considering the source, is to be taken with a bowl of salt):

Hope_Smoke: MacLean "Babcock will not like Shanahan. I don't think Carlyle likes Shanahan right now"

 

[Optimus Reimer]

Not sure if the Wings would let Babcock go before his contract expires, but I would definitely try.

Try what?

Luring him away from the Wings.

No, I got that. I mean like, specifically, what do you think the Leafs should do while Babcock is under contract to the Red Wings? Because they can't make him offers. They can't offer the Red Wings inducements. So...what's left?

Backroom deals?  Offer Detroit drug dealers access to Rob Ford's network?  Offer Babcock's wife unlimited credit at Bata?  If the Wings were aware that Babcock would leave at the end of the season Lieweke/Shanahan and Holland could work something out that the Wings get some sort of compensation from the Leafs without completely violating NHL rules on this sort of activity.       

 

[Kin]

If the Wings were aware that Babcock would leave at the end of the season Lieweke/Shanahan and Holland could work something out that the Wings get some sort of compensation from the Leafs without completely violating NHL rules on this sort of activity.     

The last time that was discussed as a possibility busta linked to something that said pretty emphatically that you can't offer compensation for coaches.

 

[bustaheims]

If the Wings were aware that Babcock would leave at the end of the season Lieweke/Shanahan and Holland could work something out that the Wings get some sort of compensation from the Leafs without completely violating NHL rules on this sort of activity.     

The last time that was discussed as a possibility busta linked to something that said pretty emphatically that you can't offer compensation for coaches.

Yeah. It's an absolute no go. Just not worth the risk. Teams can lose significant assets in terms of draft picks or be fined heavily if they're caught. It's just entirely unappealing to take a risk like that to fill a position when there are very good candidates available that don't require these kind of shenanigans.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

In his latest 30 Thoughts column Friedman said that compensation issue might get looked at this summer:

26. One subject Holland politely refused to discuss: compensation for losing your employees to other clubs. (He will not allow contact with AHL Grand Rapids coach Jeff Blashill, who would be a big-time contender for open NHL jobs.) This is a big issue for several teams who strongly believe you shouldn't lose good people for nothing. This practice ended in 2006, when commissioner Gary Bettman had to negotiate Peter Chiarelli's move from Ottawa to Boston because Senator owner Eugene Melnyk was mildly unhappy with the whole thing. Bettman ended this.

27. However, according to several sources, there is a movement to create some kind of draft-pick compensation. And it appears support is growing. Don't be surprised if it's on the agenda for the GM meetings at the Stanley Cup final. From what I understand, Bettman told the GMs at the last get-together he wouldn't consider any proposal that left room for interpretation. As mentioned, Holland, who has lost several critical staffers in the past few seasons, wouldn't discuss it. But word is we are talking about a relatively high pick (although not a first-rounder) and the team losing the selection would have a multi-year window to give it up. (Usual disclaimer: No one quoted in this blog is used as an off-the-record source.)

 

[Kin]

In his latest 30 Thoughts column Friedman said that compensation issue might get looked at this summer:

26. One subject Holland politely refused to discuss: compensation for losing your employees to other clubs. (He will not allow contact with AHL Grand Rapids coach Jeff Blashill, who would be a big-time contender for open NHL jobs.) This is a big issue for several teams who strongly believe you shouldn't lose good people for nothing. This practice ended in 2006, when commissioner Gary Bettman had to negotiate Peter Chiarelli's move from Ottawa to Boston because Senator owner Eugene Melnyk was mildly unhappy with the whole thing. Bettman ended this.

27. However, according to several sources, there is a movement to create some kind of draft-pick compensation. And it appears support is growing. Don't be surprised if it's on the agenda for the GM meetings at the Stanley Cup final. From what I understand, Bettman told the GMs at the last get-together he wouldn't consider any proposal that left room for interpretation. As mentioned, Holland, who has lost several critical staffers in the past few seasons, wouldn't discuss it. But word is we are talking about a relatively high pick (although not a first-rounder) and the team losing the selection would have a multi-year window to give it up. (Usual disclaimer: No one quoted in this blog is used as an off-the-record source.)

That's a different issue though. That's about front office guys leaving for promotions elsewhere and the difficult situation where teams don't want to say no and block someone's career advancement but they also don't want to lose people for nothing. In this case we're talking about one team actively negotiating for a coach under contract to come and coach for them.

 

[bustaheims]

That's a different issue though. That's about front office guys leaving for promotions elsewhere and the difficult situation where teams don't want to say no and block someone's career advancement but they also don't want to lose people for nothing. In this case we're talking about one team actively negotiating for a coach under contract to come and coach for them.

Coaches and front office staff are considered to be the same category of employee when it comes to the current compensation rules. The situations are different, but the rules some teams are looking to adjust are the same.

And, for what it's worth, this issue has been presented to the BoG a few times since the cap was implemented, and there has yet to be enough traction to create change.

 

[Kin]

Coaches and front office staff are considered to be the same category of employee when it comes to the current compensation rules. The situations are different, but the rules some teams are looking to adjust are the same.

Right, but what I'm saying in the context of this discussion is that even if the rules were changed to allow for a team to pay for an assistant GM that would be responding to the pressure teams feel to let a guy go to another team while acknowledging that they were losing something of value. Even if the rule change was sweeping enough to include coaches that pressure doesn't exist.

And, for what it's worth, this issue has been presented to the BoG a few times since the cap was implemented, and there has yet to be enough traction to create change.

Well, that's the other thing. I imagine the team's looking to do the poaching would want the compensation to be low, the ones getting poached want it to be high and the teams in the middle would probably rather avoid the headache altogether.

 

[bustaheims]

Right, but what I'm saying in the context of this discussion is that even if the rules were changed to allow for a team to pay for an assistant GM that would be responding to the pressure teams feel to let a guy go to another team while acknowledging that they were losing something of value. Even if the rule change was sweeping enough to include coaches that pressure doesn't exist.

It doesn't really have to be all that sweeping. The NHL already considers coaches to be part of the front office staff, and, in all likelihood, any rule changes in this area would apply to a more general group rather than specifying positions - as that could lead to all sorts of shenanigans in terms of teams giving employees unconventional titles, etc.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

I'm down with another year of Carlyle if it means Babcock in 2015-16 (since it always works out when we wait for other contracts to end).

Brilliant. Tank for McDavid/Eichel and then bring in Babcock to coach.

I figure Carlyle next season, draft McDavid, bring in Babcock, bob's yer uncle, Cup in 2017.  If I'm being conservative.

You forgot a few in there...

- We trade Phanuef for Weber
- Kessel for Getzlaf and Perry
- Rielly for Karlsson
- Our 4th line for some beer and tacos for the entire city of Toronto

Then the parade.

We have a fourth line??  ???

 

[Kin]

It doesn't really have to be all that sweeping. The NHL already considers coaches to be part of the front office staff, and, in all likelihood, any rule changes in this area would apply to a more general group rather than specifying positions - as that could lead to all sorts of shenanigans in terms of teams giving employees unconventional titles, etc.

Well, we're going pretty far afield at this point but I suppose I'd give that more credence if the NHL hadn't shown a willingness to punish people for violating the spirit but not the letter of their rules. "Not the Head Coach" wouldn't be hard to enforce.

 

[bustaheims]

Well, we're going pretty far afield at this point but I suppose I'd give that more credence if the NHL hadn't shown a willingness to punish people for violating the spirit but not the letter of their rules. "Not the Head Coach" wouldn't be hard to enforce.

While that's true to an extent, that's just not the way the league is likely to do things. If the rule is changed, it will apply to everyone the league considers to be front office staff, and that would include head coaches.