Steve Stamkos?

[TBLeafer]

Yeah, even "super unrealistic" might be putting it lightly at that number.

I'll admit I am not basing this on anything, but I think management has a much higher number that they are willing to go to with him - somewhere in the area of 10.5.

A week ago I'd have disagreed very much. Since the Andersen deal and what the team did at the draft, I'm far less confident in my read of the front office's continued good judgment.

It seems your judgement is one not shared by many, many Leafs fans AND by management now it seems.  So there's that.

Perhaps YOUR judgement is... dare I say it... flawed?

Well if it results in a bunch of second round exits from the playoffs, they probably should have listened to Nik.

Well I'll happily take those early exits while the young new top prospects develop over tanking another season while the same top new prospects develop, thank you very much.

I'd much rather see them develop under a winning culture, with a management committed to giving them the best team possible to work with, within their means.

 

[Frank E]

I've mentioned this before, but for me the turning point was re-signing Kadri.

I don't remember, was that before or after the draft lottery?

It was before.

Yeah, I didn't have quite so much the same reaction. The likely outcome of the draft lottery was that the Leafs were going to be in a position to draft a wing and not a C(operating, as we were, that Dubois was a wing). As a result I thought it made a fair bit of sense to lock up Kadri regardless.

I still sort of think that, especially if the plan right now is for Nylander to start his career on the wing.

Well, for me there wasn't any hurry to get this done.  You could wait and see what the lottery got you.

 

[Kin]

Well, for me there wasn't any hurry to get this done.  You could wait and see what the lottery got you.

I get that, and I'm sympathetic to it, but I think Kadri signed at such a reasonable cost that even still there wasn't much potential for downside there. As is he's very reasonably paid to be a 2nd line center for the next couple of years and should get ample opportunities to produce enough to be a valuable trade chip.

That is, of course, less true if he's a 3rd line center.

 

[TBLeafer]

It seems your judgement is one not shared by many, many Leafs fans AND by management now it seems.  So there's that.

Perhaps YOUR judgement is... dare I say it... flawed?

For most of my life when it's been me vs. a majority of Leafs fans and Leafs management my judgment has a pretty good W-L record. I'll lean on that until definitively proven otherwise.

Believe it or not, my track record with past management is very similar, I'd guess.  I even looked at the March schedule in 2013-14, created a thread on the official Leafs site forum titled "March Madness for Leafs Fans" where I highly questioned their ability to stay competitive with their opponents in the beginning of that month.  We know how that turned out. 

I just think that the Leafs now are in a much better place now than you think they are or want them to be for some reason.

 

[Frank E]

It seems your judgement is one not shared by many, many Leafs fans AND by management now it seems.  So there's that.

Perhaps YOUR judgement is... dare I say it... flawed?

For most of my life when it's been me vs. a majority of Leafs fans and Leafs management my judgment has a pretty good W-L record. I'll lean on that until definitively proven otherwise.

Believe it or not, my track record with past management is very similar, I'd guess.  I even looked at the March schedule in 2013-14, created a thread on the official Leafs site forum titled "March Madness for Leafs Fans" where I highly questioned their ability to stay competitive with their opponents in the beginning of that month.  We know how that turned out. 

I just think that the Leafs now are in a much better place now than you think they are or want them to be for some reason.

You really stuck your neck out there.

 

[TBLeafer]

It seems your judgement is one not shared by many, many Leafs fans AND by management now it seems.  So there's that.

Perhaps YOUR judgement is... dare I say it... flawed?

For most of my life when it's been me vs. a majority of Leafs fans and Leafs management my judgment has a pretty good W-L record. I'll lean on that until definitively proven otherwise.

Believe it or not, my track record with past management is very similar, I'd guess.  I even looked at the March schedule in 2013-14, created a thread on the official Leafs site forum titled "March Madness for Leafs Fans" where I highly questioned their ability to stay competitive with their opponents in the beginning of that month.  We know how that turned out. 

I just think that the Leafs now are in a much better place now than you think they are or want them to be for some reason.

You really stuck your neck out there.

They entered March that season with an 87% probability of making playoffs.  They ended the season drafting Nylander.  So yeah, most considered it a bold prediction at the time.

 

[Kin]

I just think that the Leafs now are in a much better place now than you think they are or want them to be for some reason.

I obviously don't know your history as you're a new member around here but you're not in great company this time when predicting the future.

 

[Frank E]

It seems your judgement is one not shared by many, many Leafs fans AND by management now it seems.  So there's that.

Perhaps YOUR judgement is... dare I say it... flawed?

For most of my life when it's been me vs. a majority of Leafs fans and Leafs management my judgment has a pretty good W-L record. I'll lean on that until definitively proven otherwise.

Believe it or not, my track record with past management is very similar, I'd guess.  I even looked at the March schedule in 2013-14, created a thread on the official Leafs site forum titled "March Madness for Leafs Fans" where I highly questioned their ability to stay competitive with their opponents in the beginning of that month.  We know how that turned out. 

I just think that the Leafs now are in a much better place now than you think they are or want them to be for some reason.

You really stuck your neck out there.

They entered March that season with an 87% probability of making playoffs.  They ended the season drafting Nylander.  So yeah, most considered it a bold prediction at the time.

That you "highly questioned their ability to stay competitive" is different than you calling them to miss the playoffs.

But as long as we're talking about unverifiable things, I once won a "heads or tails" battle 5 games in a row.  Didn't win the 6th game though.  True story.

 

[Kin]

They entered March that season with an 87% probability of making playoffs.  They ended the season drafting Nylander.  So yeah, most considered it a bold prediction at the time.

The way I remember that season there was a pretty solid argument the whole year among people who thought that the Leafs' advanced metrics(particularly their corsi) was indicative of a team that was punching well above their weight for most of it and that the drop-off that started in January of that year was a long time coming.

So that may have been more a question of your surroundings. I don't know how analytics focused a place that was.

 

[louisstamos]

Just saying is all I'm saying...

 

[TBLeafer]

I just think that the Leafs now are in a much better place now than you think they are or want them to be for some reason.

I obviously don't know your history as you're a new member around here but you're not in great company this time when predicting the future.

I came here in the off-season.  So its all just speculation.  What is this company that you speak of?

 

[ZBBM]

Yeah, even "super unrealistic" might be putting it lightly at that number.

I'll admit I am not basing this on anything, but I think management has a much higher number that they are willing to go to with him - somewhere in the area of 10.5.

A week ago I'd have disagreed very much. Since the Andersen deal and what the team did at the draft, I'm far less confident in my read of the front office's continued good judgment.

This. The Shanaplan may not be what we thought it was.  Maybe it's more like the Burkeplan....  :-X

 

[Kin]

This. The Shanaplan may not be what we thought it was.  Maybe it's more like the Burkeplan....  :-X

The Shanaplan, The Burkevaluation, the Ferguscenario.

Edit: The Nonishot in the Dark.

 

[TBLeafer]

They entered March that season with an 87% probability of making playoffs.  They ended the season drafting Nylander.  So yeah, most considered it a bold prediction at the time.

The way I remember that season there was a pretty solid argument the whole year among people who thought that the Leafs' advanced metrics(particularly their corsi) was indicative of a team that was punching well above their weight for most of it and that the drop-off that started in January of that year was a long time coming.

So that may have been more a question of your surroundings. I don't know how analytics focused a place that was.

A lot of old schoolers that brushed them off as "fancy stats", but there were some good solid new age thinkers as well.  It was them getting up in arms about the Clarkson trade, that made me decide to learn what I could about them and not dismiss them like idiot Carlyle as I liked to affectionately call him.

My post game 7 thread was one of the most posted in, debated and discussed threads there as well.

'Carlyle Cost Us the playoffs'.

It wasn't Reimer's fault.  It wasn't Frattin's fault.  It wasn't Grabovski's fault.  I wasn't CMac's fault.  It wasn't Gardiner's fault.  Hell, it wasn't even Phaneuf's fault.

It was Carlyle and his idiot player deployment in the final 10 minutes.

 

[Tigger]

Yup, this thread's not near big enough.

 

[ZBBM]

This. The Shanaplan may not be what we thought it was.  Maybe it's more like the Burkeplan....  :-X

The Shanaplan, The Burkevaluation, the Ferguscenario.

Edit: The Nonishot in the Dark.

2 more points in the Good column of your Book of Life.

 

[Joe S.]

Just saying is all I'm saying...

 

[McGarnagle]

Above ground pool free installation sale? The Lightning Magnet? The Tinkler? Shame indeed!

 

[Zee]

Yeah, even "super unrealistic" might be putting it lightly at that number.

I'll admit I am not basing this on anything, but I think management has a much higher number that they are willing to go to with him - somewhere in the area of 10.5.

A week ago I'd have disagreed very much. Since the Andersen deal and what the team did at the draft, I'm far less confident in my read of the front office's continued good judgment.

This. The Shanaplan may not be what we thought it was.  Maybe it's more like the Burkeplan....  :-X

Until this regime trades two firsts and a 2nd, doesn't lottery protect the first and then finishes 2nd last, I'm thinking they're far better than Burke.

 

[mr grieves]

Yeah, even "super unrealistic" might be putting it lightly at that number.

I'll admit I am not basing this on anything, but I think management has a much higher number that they are willing to go to with him - somewhere in the area of 10.5.

A week ago I'd have disagreed very much. Since the Andersen deal and what the team did at the draft, I'm far less confident in my read of the front office's continued good judgment.

This. The Shanaplan may not be what we thought it was.  Maybe it's more like the Burkeplan....  :-X

Until this regime trades two firsts and a 2nd, doesn't lottery protect the first and then finishes 2nd last, I'm thinking they're far better than Burke.

And they might've drafted a bunch size-over-skill guys with their later picks. They didn't trade up to do it in the first round.

There's a lot of space between not tanking next season, starting a build-up a bit sooner than some might like & spending some cap space on a high-end talent and what the last regimes did.