Tank Nation: Matthews Edition

[CarltonTheBear]

The big problem with the Leafs and the tank right now is the fact that in order to tank properly and do well in the end, they need good scouts.  I know that they have Shanahan now, a new GM, and a new coach, but what about the scouts?  Hasn't that Hunter guy been there for awhile?

Mark Hunter's only run one draft for the Leafs so far, and many people considered it to be a big success for the Leafs.

 

[Highlander]

they dramatically changed the scouts overall, cut some guys and added others, so it was a bit of a sweep.
also both Hunter and Dubas scout extensively themselves

 

[bustaheims]

The big problem with the Leafs and the tank right now is the fact that in order to tank properly and do well in the end, they need good scouts.  I know that they have Shanahan now, a new GM, and a new coach, but what about the scouts?  Hasn't that Hunter guy been there for awhile?

Mark Hunter's only run one draft for the Leafs so far, and many people considered it to be a big success for the Leafs.

They also basically fired the entire scouting staff this summer.

 

[Kin]

Also, and I don't want to go out on a limb here, but I think Nylander looks like a pretty good prospect.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Also, and I don't want to go out on a limb here, but I think Nylander looks like a pretty good prospect.

Larkin's also an All-Star this season strictly in the "every team needs one" sense. Nylander could very well have been our all-star if he was on the team this year.

 

[bustaheims]

Watching Larkin win the fastest skater last night got me thinking about this.  Larkin was drafted 15th overall in the 2014 draft.  I looked at his stats and he deserves to be an all star.  I don't think there is any doubt that he is better than Nylander at this point right now. I realize that 9 other teams made the same mistake as the Leafs, but the fact remains that Detroit's scouts are bar none the best in the league and they are one of the main reasons why their team has done so well for such a long period of time.  If the Leafs have all this money then they need to attract the league's best scouts IMO.  Otherwise we will keep on tanking and we won't have anything to show for it.

I think there's plenty doubt. Nylander is 1.25 ppg player in he AHL as a 19 year old - which is an extremely rare feat. Yes, Larkin's having a good rookie season, but, his numbers are basically on par with Komarov. He looks like he'll be a solid top 6 player in the future, but Nylander looks like he has 1st line potential and is generally regarded as one of the top 3 drafted prospects not in the NHL yet. If Larkin wasn't with the Wings this season, he'd be well below Nylander in those rankings.

 

[Frank E]

I don't think there's a problem with suggesting that Larkin may be a better NHL player than Nylander right now.

15 goals and 33 points in 48 games is a pretty solid start in the NHL for Larkin.

But going as far as to say that it's conclusive and the Leafs' people aren't as competent as Detroit's based on the Larkin pick is a pretty huge stretch.  Let's give Nylander a chance in the big league for a couple of seasons before we start saying that Larkin > Nylander.

 

[Kin]

I don't think there's a problem with suggesting that Larkin may be a better NHL player than Nylander right now.

I guess, but only in the same way that it's fair to suggest that Anthony Davis is a better NBA player than William Nylander.

But going as far as to say that it's conclusive and the Leafs' people aren't as competent as Detroit's based on the Larkin pick is a pretty huge stretch.

Considering that the Leafs have largely replaced the people who would have been responsible for the Nylander pick Larkin could have a goal per game and Nylander could be selling insurance and it wouldn't reflect too much on the Leafs' people.

 

[rdowdall]

I don't think there's a problem with suggesting that Larkin may be a better NHL player than Nylander right now.

15 goals and 33 points in 48 games is a pretty solid start in the NHL for Larkin.

But going as far as to say that it's conclusive and the Leafs' people aren't as competent as Detroit's based on the Larkin pick is a pretty huge stretch.  Let's give Nylander a chance in the big league for a couple of seasons before we start saying that Larkin > Nylander.

Oh no.  Once again the Leafs top 10 pick is trumped by the 15th overall pick.

 

[ZBBM]

Watching Larkin win the fastest skater last night got me thinking about this.  Larkin was drafted 15th overall in the 2014 draft.  I looked at his stats and he deserves to be an all star.  I don't think there is any doubt that he is better than Nylander at this point right now. I realize that 9 other teams made the same mistake as the Leafs, but the fact remains that Detroit's scouts are bar none the best in the league and they are one of the main reasons why their team has done so well for such a long period of time.  If the Leafs have all this money then they need to attract the league's best scouts IMO.  Otherwise we will keep on tanking and we won't have anything to show for it.

I think there's plenty doubt. Nylander is 1.25 ppg player in he AHL as a 19 year old - which is an extremely rare feat. Yes, Larkin's having a good rookie season, but, his numbers are basically on par with Komarov. He looks like he'll be a solid top 6 player in the future, but Nylander looks like he has 1st line potential and is generally regarded as one of the top 3 drafted prospects not in the NHL yet. If Larkin wasn't with the Wings this season, he'd be well below Nylander in those rankings.

Sorry man, but THN anointed Larkin the next Toews on its cover and he got a 4-page fawn-over by the highly respected and unbiased expert, Ken Campbell.  So your position is basically dee-stroyed.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Sorry man, but THN anointed Larkin the next Toews on its cover and he got a 4-page fawn-over by the highly respected and unbiased expert, Ken Campbell.  So your position is basically dee-stroyed.

Was it in the sense that they're both overrated in the minds of the hockey people out there who consider them the very best in their player class? Because if so that's a pretty spot-on comparison, well done THN.

 

[ZBBM]

Sorry man, but THN anointed Larkin the next Toews on its cover and he got a 4-page fawn-over by the highly respected and unbiased expert, Ken Campbell.  So your position is basically dee-stroyed.

Was it in the sense that they're both overrated in the minds of the hockey people out there who consider them the very best in their player class? Because if so that's a pretty spot-on comparison, well done THN.

FWIW just to be clear, I like Larkin and he's off to a great start in his career.  But calling him the next Toews is simply nonsensical and doesn't do him any favors, same as the guy who hyped Stralman as the next Lidstrom -- and Stralman, to his credit, has matured into a good solid player.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

FWIW just to be clear, I like Larkin and he's off to a great start in his career.  But calling him the next Toews is simply nonsensical and doesn't do him any favors, same as the guy who hyped Stralman as the next Lidstrom -- and Stralman, to his credit, has matured into a good solid player.

Yeah for sure same here. Larkin will be a really good player, but I'd still take Nylander between the two of them.

 

[cabber24]

FWIW just to be clear, I like Larkin and he's off to a great start in his career.  But calling him the next Toews is simply nonsensical and doesn't do him any favors, same as the guy who hyped Stralman as the next Lidstrom -- and Stralman, to his credit, has matured into a good solid player.

Yeah for sure same here. Larkin will be a really good player, but I'd still take Nylander between the two of them.

I would take the 19 year old who is an NHL All Star today.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I would take the 19 year old who is an NHL All Star today.

Literally the only reason Dylan Larkin was an All-Star this season was because the NHL couldn't fit Detroit's most deserving ASG representative (Petr Mrazek) on the team because the Atlantic division already had 2 goalies on it.

If you like Larkin, that's great, but he's an All-Star in the exact same sense Leo Komarov is an All-Star. Maybe even less-so since Komarov was actually Toronto's most deserving player.

 

[bustaheims]

I would take the 19 year old who is an NHL All Star today.

I'd take the player with the higher ceiling, and recognize that being invited to the All Star Game is a largely meaningless accomplishment when the rules mandate that every team has to have a player in the game.

 

[Redleaf]

From what I've seen from Larkin at the all star game, (Didn't see him play much before), we're in for a real treat if Nylander's ceiling turns out to be higher. A real treat.

 

[Kin]

I only watched the last 20 minutes of the All-Star game so I'd say that  nobody in the league is any good at scoring goals, Larkin included. Nylander wasn't in the last 20 minutes of the All-Star game, ergo, he's probably better than anyone in the league. 

 

[Bender]

This is exactly the same argument I saw recently on Hockey Central. Did the Leafs make a mistake because Noah Hanifin is in the NHL and Mitch Marner is not??

What insanity. Let the kids play out a few years before we throw all the babies out with the bathwater.

 

[Highlander]

This from Cathal:  Lamoriello may be the only person alive who can put himself to sleep by speaking out loud.