The Brian Burke Thread

[Kin]

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Burke's integrity is why I like this guy a lot.  He won't cave into anyone and he doesn't just think about himself.  He would rather be fired than to give up all our prospects to land one guy for a short term fix.

So he's a great guy because he refuses to do the thing he's already done?

 

[jonlleafs]

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Burke's integrity is why I like this guy a lot.  He won't cave into anyone and he doesn't just think about himself.  He would rather be fired than to give up all our prospects to land one guy for a short term fix.

So he's a great guy because he refuses to do the thing he's already done?

Haven't we come to the conclusion that he did this "one" thing once and that was with the Kessel trade?  And a good reason for that is the insistence of the owners to fast-track the team back into the playoffs without a full rebuild?  His quote even states that.  After seeing that it wasn't going to be easy, Burke has drafted all his 1st rounders since and actually added an additional one where he didn't have one last year.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

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Burke's integrity is why I like this guy a lot.  He won't cave into anyone and he doesn't just think about himself.  He would rather be fired than to give up all our prospects to land one guy for a short term fix.  This is exactly the guy you want running your team.  If we don't bail on him too early, I think he can at the very least make the Leafs a very competitive team and for many years (not just a one-hit wonder).

Well sure I'm with him on that.

The flip side is we won't be in on Suter/Parise because Burke has signed so many bad deals that have hampered the teams ability to be real players in FA. That's not something he should be let off for.

In fact if he's fired this year it'll be because his mistakes did him in, not his slow approach to building our youth (hello Phil Kessel deal?). The more and more he's GM, the more contradictions come up that make him look foolish.

 

[Kin]

Haven't we come to the conclusion that he did this "one" thing once and that was with the Kessel trade?

No. There are significantly more examples of Burke looking for shortcuts. The Kessel one really is just the biggest.

  And a good reason for that is the insistence of the owners to fast-track the team back into the playoffs without a full rebuild?

No. There was no good reason for it.

After seeing that it wasn't going to be easy, Burke has drafted all his 1st rounders since and actually added an additional one where he didn't have one last year.

Oh. Well, if it only took him a few years to realize that building a cup winner wasn't going to be easy...you're right. Masterful.

 

[Kin]

In fact if he's fired this year it'll be because his mistakes did him in, not his slow approach to building our youth (hello Phil Kessel deal?). The more and more he's GM, the more contradictions come up that make him look foolish.

Exactly. If Burke gets fired it'll be because NHL teams aren't in the habit of giving mulligans on the first 5 years.

People, I think, sort of miss the point when people say that he's likely to get fired if the team misses the playoffs. It's not because of the same sort of "Get into the playoffs at all costs" mentality. It'll be because we'll be four full seasons deep into Burke's tenure without anything to show for it other than a good but unspectacular collection of minor league talent.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

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Burke's integrity is why I like this guy a lot.  He won't cave into anyone and he doesn't just think about himself.  He would rather be fired than to give up all our prospects to land one guy for a short term fix.

So he's a great guy because he refuses to do the thing he's already done?

Haven't we come to the conclusion that he did this "one" thing once and that was with the Kessel trade?  And a good reason for that is the insistence of the owners to fast-track the team back into the playoffs without a full rebuild?  His quote even states that.  After seeing that it wasn't going to be easy, Burke has drafted all his 1st rounders since and actually added an additional one where he didn't have one last year.

That one deal though will probably be the difference between being a pretty good team in a few years versus an elite team. A 2nd overall who's good at both ends (a #1 center eventually) and what looks to be a top D-man can't be traded for without giving up a bunch of youth.

That trade wasn't just "this one time", it was a deal that's set this franchise back for a good 5 years (even longer if Kessel walks).

 

[#1PilarFan]

Burke really has to show something. I can't imagine any other GM in Toronto lasting for five years with just Kessel, Phaneuf and a handful of middling prospects to show for it. 

 

[Frank E]

In looking at the capgeek chart, it does look like this year is a "clearout" year for this team...doesn't it look like the rebuild starts next summer?

http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=4

 

[Omallley]

In looking at the capgeek chart, it does look like this year is a "clearout" year for this team...doesn't it look like the rebuild starts next summer?

http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=4

Certainly takes care of the dead-weight among the forwards, if Burke's not able to do much about that before then...

 

[Kin]

In looking at the capgeek chart, it does look like this year is a "clearout" year for this team...doesn't it look like the rebuild starts next summer?

http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=4

I mean, sure, if the idea is that you're going to rebuild with cap dollars.

 

[armche123]

In looking at the capgeek chart, it does look like this year is a "clearout" year for this team...doesn't it look like the rebuild starts next summer?

http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=4

Or perhaps most of those players put there best foot forward... and we see most of the same players stay... Again.

 

[moon111]

Which would you rather have...
Beauchemin, Sequin, Dougie Hamilton, and Jared Knight or
Lupul, Kessel, and Gardiner?  Burke has made amends.
If the Leafs don't get off to their worst start since 1917?, then how does the Kessel deal look?  If Boston got Erik Gudbranson?  Ryan Johansen?  Nino Niederreiter?  Starts getting one-sided real fast.
In my mind, the deals that are currently hurting the Leafs are things like Kubina for Exelby and/or Antropov for a 2nd.  Replace Komisarek with Kubina and put Antropov as your #1 center between Lupul and Kessel.

 

[Kin]

Which would you rather have...
Beauchemin, Sequin, Dougie Hamilton, and Jared Knight or
Lupul, Kessel, and Gardiner?  Burke has made amends.

Well, A, I'd rather have Hamilton, Seguin and Knight and only in part because of their controllable years but, more importantly, this is an argument that doesn't hold even to an internal logic. Either Kessel/Lupul were good additions to the team or, absent those trades, their draft position would be higher, not lower or the same.

 

[Jalili]

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Burke's integrity is why I like this guy a lot.  He won't cave into anyone and he doesn't just think about himself.  He would rather be fired than to give up all our prospects to land one guy for a short term fix.

So he's a great guy because he refuses to do the thing he's already done?

Haven't we come to the conclusion that he did this "one" thing once and that was with the Kessel trade?  And a good reason for that is the insistence of the owners to fast-track the team back into the playoffs without a full rebuild?  His quote even states that.  After seeing that it wasn't going to be easy, Burke has drafted all his 1st rounders since and actually added an additional one where he didn't have one last year.

Its hard to put that one deal aside just like that when it happens to be a major defining move that went against the direction of the team.

 

[jonlleafs]

In fact if he's fired this year it'll be because his mistakes did him in, not his slow approach to building our youth (hello Phil Kessel deal?). The more and more he's GM, the more contradictions come up that make him look foolish.

Exactly. If Burke gets fired it'll be because NHL teams aren't in the habit of giving mulligans on the first 5 years.

People, I think, sort of miss the point when people say that he's likely to get fired if the team misses the playoffs. It's not because of the same sort of "Get into the playoffs at all costs" mentality. It'll be because we'll be four full seasons deep into Burke's tenure without anything to show for it other than a good but unspectacular collection of minor league talent.

So tell me.  How long did Pittsburgh stink before finally getting into the playoffs in 2007/2008?  It was SIX.  Six years without a playoff appearance.  And like throughout their history, they got lucky in the lottery and selected Crosby.  We haven't had the same luck.  So everyone is preaching wooah 4yrs under Burke, but from where he started from, he's done lots.  I'm not going to count the other 3yrs because that wasn't under his control. 

 

[slapshot]

Which would you rather have...
Beauchemin, Sequin, Dougie Hamilton, and Jared Knight or
Lupul, Kessel, and Gardiner?  Burke has made amends.
If the Leafs don't get off to their worst start since 1917?, then how does the Kessel deal look?  If Boston got Erik Gudbranson?  Ryan Johansen?  Nino Niederreiter?  Starts getting one-sided real fast.
In my mind, the deals that are currently hurting the Leafs are things like Kubina for Exelby and/or Antropov for a 2nd.  Replace Komisarek with Kubina and put Antropov as your #1 center between Lupul and Kessel.

Not to mention Colborne, Percy and Liles for Tomas Who?

 

[Kin]

So tell me.  How long did Pittsburgh stink before finally getting into the playoffs in 2007/2008?  It was SIX.  Six years without a playoff appearance.

Several points in response to your laughably transparent comparison but any one would suffice:

1. It is much, much harder to make the playoffs with the league's lowest payroll and a bankrupt owner in an uncapped league than it is to do so paying near the cap limit in a capped league, as has been the case for the Burke-era Leafs.
2. The Penguins didn't have an unspectacular group of prospects. They had a spectacular one.
3. The Penguins finally made the playoffs in 06/07, not 07/08
4. The Penguins GM who oversaw the team during their financial collapse was replaced. Ray Shero missed the playoffs only once.

 

[slapshot]

Burkie has a lot of figuring out to do with the potential excess of forward bodies this fall...

According to the depth chart, regulars til now, look like this...

Left wing                  Center          Right Wing
Lupul                        Grabo              Kessel
JVR                          Connolly            Kulimen
MacArthur                  Bozak              Frattin
Brown                      Steckel            Armstrong

Extras and those knocking on the door include:
Lombardi, Kadri, Colborne, Komarev and Crabb...longshots D'Amigo and Carter. Along with a considerable amount of depth on Defence, Burkie has to be looking to deal teams that are looking for depth and quantity and can offer some quality, perhaps looking to offload some cap space. What teams might fit that bill and who would they have that is quality but expensive that the Leafs could use?

 

[jonlleafs]

So tell me.  How long did Pittsburgh stink before finally getting into the playoffs in 2007/2008?  It was SIX.  Six years without a playoff appearance.

Several points in response to your laughably transparent comparison but any one would suffice:

1. It is much, much harder to make the playoffs with the league's lowest payroll and a bankrupt owner in an uncapped league than it is to do so paying near the cap limit in a capped league, as has been the case for the Burke-era Leafs.
2. The Penguins didn't have an unspectacular group of prospects. They had a spectacular one.
3. The Penguins finally made the playoffs in 06/07, not 07/08
4. The Penguins GM who oversaw the team during their financial collapse was replaced. Ray Shero missed the playoffs only once.

Right so Shero came in with a stack cupboard full of elite talent and went on to oversee another bad year where he picked up the 2nd overall pick in Jordan Staal.  With lack of patience in this organization, we could never tank and be last or near last in the league for 3yrs in order to get such elite prospects.  Also in Pittsburgh's favor was the fact that there were elite players available in the draft years where they tanked. 

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

In looking at the capgeek chart, it does look like this year is a "clearout" year for this team...doesn't it look like the rebuild starts next summer?

http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=4

I mean, sure, if the idea is that you're going to rebuild with cap dollars.

Not to mention almost all of those "clearout" are players Burke signed or traded for during his tenure.

It's not as if he arrived in Calgary and has had his hands tied since he got here. He traded for Lupul, Kessel, Liles, Lombardi and signed Komi, Armstrong, Mac, Steckel and Connolly.

If he's handcuffed it's his own doing, not a reason to give him a chance to re-tool/re-allocate Cap dollars. Really the guy's done a really good job of getting practically nothing done and keeping a ton of people in his corner.

Results are long overdue...