The easy part is done. Next step: Core overhaul

[herman]

By no means an exhaustive list, I think our salary cap situation means we need to make do with what we have and try to eke out as much of the potential as possible through a development focus (playing the right way). If ego is getting in the way of that, then we move on.

Core 2.015: Kadri, van Riemsdyk, Rielly, Bernier

Try to keep: Komarov, Santorelli, Winnik, Franson
Try to grow: Kessel (mentally/emotionally), Gardiner (mentally), Holland (more playing time with skill), Panik (more playing time)

Trade for youth: Lupul, Robidas, Polak, Phaneuf, Bozak
Toss regardless of return: Clarkson, Nonis

 

[Arn]

What do you do with Reimer now? He obviosuly wasn't a favourite under Carlyle. Bernier has probably earned the starting spot. Do you get Reimer out with a new more defensive system and try and boost his trade value?

 

[bustaheims]

Right now, I'd be focused on moving out all the pending UFAs. There's a couple that would be nice to retain, but, because of the Leafs' cap situation, and the fact that major changes are likely required any ways, it feels unnecessary and imprudent. Pick up as many draft picks for the 2015 draft as possible. It's supposed to be a very good and very deep talent pool.

After that, I'd focus on moving out Bozak, Clarkson, Robidas and Lupul. These are guys that are either too old to be useful when the Leafs are likely ready to take the next step, already not useful, injury prone or in positions the Leafs badly need to upgrade. They may not get much in return for any of them, but, freeing up cap space for future seasons should also be a priority, and these 4 guys represent $17.7M in cap for the next 2 seasons (and $14.7M 3 seasons from now). Also, figure out what to do with Reimer. He also won't bring back great value, but, if he's going to be a straight back up, that's a role that can adequately be filled at a lower cost.

Moving anyone else on the roster is a lower priority for me. Moving Polak out wouldn't be the worst thing, since he only has one more season before hitting the UFA market. On the flip side, though, if he's willing to sign on for a few more years at around the same price, that might be worth exploring. For anyone else, if a deal comes along that's a no brainer, you make it, but, I wouldn't be looking to move any of these guys out, yet. That opinion may change by the summer, but, as of right now, I think the group of Kessel, JvR, Kadri, Rielly, Gardiner, Phaneuf and Bernier needs to be added to, not ripped apart.

 

[ZBBM]

By no means an exhaustive list, I think our salary cap situation means we need to make do with what we have and try to eke out as much of the potential as possible through a development focus (playing the right way). If ego is getting in the way of that, then we move on.

Core 2.015: Kadri, van Riemsdyk, Rielly, Bernier

Try to keep: Komarov, Santorelli, Winnik, Franson
Try to grow: Kessel (mentally/emotionally), Gardiner (mentally), Holland (more playing time with skill), Panik (more playing time)

Trade for youth: Lupul, Robidas, Polak, Phaneuf, Bozak
Toss regardless of return: Clarkson, Nonis

^ This is good. 

I would try my damnedest to trade Phaneuf to EDM for their 1st rounder this year (assuming they have it, I don't know).  I like what Busta said about loading up picks in strong draft year.  Lupul might net a 2nd (?) at the deadline assuming he's healthy that week and a contender is looking for more firepower.  Bozak and Polak might also get you a decent pick in return.

I don't think Kessel is going to "grow" in maturity, BTW.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't think Kessel is going to "grow" in maturity, BTW.

He's not immature, jeebus.

 

[pmrules]

I've been pushing for a core overhaul for quite some time, in addition to the change in coach.  I'm interested to see what the next 40 or so games plays out.

I suggested in the offseason, that I would consider trading Kessel - not because I am giving up on him, but because he has the most value, and it was apparant to me at least that a significant change was necessary.  I'd look to trade Kessel (plus whatever else it took except for Reilly/Nylander/2015 1st rounder) for a bona-fide #1 Defenseman (Norris'ish caliber).  That way every one else on defense slides down a spot.  Heck, you can even use Phaneuf on the 2nd pairing with Reilly/Gardiner rounding out the top 4 in each pairing.  I'd be very comfortable with that along with Bernier in net.  Percy/Holzer/Robidas can round out the bottom pairing.

For the offense - Kadri is due a promotion to the 1st Line to play with JVR and Nylander is on his way (That's half of your future top 6).  Trade or keep some form of Franson/Lupul/Bozak/Reimer/Polak for 2 of the remaining 3 offensive top 6 assets

The final piece of the top 6 is hopefully internally developed (2015 1st rounder/Holland/Leivo/Panik/C. Brown etc.) or via UFA (not sure who this is).

The future bottom 6 will be held by Komorov/Gauthier/Holland/Winnik/Panik/Bodie/Leivo/Clarkson/UFAs.  These guys can score, play some defense and some can play with some aggression, and I have no problem for any of these guys playing 10-15 mins a game. 

Clarkson/Booth/Smith - I have no idea what to do with these guys...very little value for either of these guys.  Keep for the bottom 6 or send down to minors to await injury replacements or trade for late picks.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Joe S.]

They don't need an overhaul. They've needed the same 2 things for the last 10 years.

A first line centre and a #1 defenceman.

Maybe you could squash Phaneuf in that role, but centre has been a gaping hole for the leafs for WAY too long.

That's why I'm suggesting getting Stall out of Carolina. Sure he's not the youngest, but I really think he would transform this team - because then everyone is slotted down where they belong.

 

[Highlander]

Kessel is not going anywhere, let him be what he is, a Sniper and surround him with players whom can protect his defensive deficiencies.  Polak should be traded, when he was out Holzer filled in and they where winning games. Or as part of a package with Reimer.  Should fetch something decent.
As much as I like Lupul, he should be traded. Bozak as well, we need a big centre with some offensive skills to feed off Kessel.
Although I would like the Pylon removed, if you could pair him with a real stud D man he could manage his way through 3 or 4 more seasons and be moved then. Keep Clarkson on the 4th with the same motivation, get him through 2 or 3 more and then give him away or buy him out then.
I like Franson but not at the cost he will demand, unless as a Leaf fan himself, he gives us the home team price.  However he is not essential.  We have a lot of you D talent developing.
Komorav, Winnek and Santorelli should be kept. I would like to see more of a role for Holland.

I excited to see what Horachuck can do with this bunch, minus Randy, perhaps our possestion will be much more towards 50% by the end of the season. 

 

[Crucialness Key]

Another angle--in terms of who'd be appealing to other teams, what about JvR?  Young, proven point-getter, and a highly appealing contract. 

Is it possible that a team with multiple strong centre prospects would want to do a deal including JvR? (especially if that team, Buf or Edm say, gets McDavid)

Forward Core becomes --> Kadri / Nylander / Kessel / New Guy (Drasaitl, Reinhart, etc)

(This also assumes Lupul & Bozak gone)

 

[Bullfrog]

They don't need an overhaul. They've needed the same 2 things for the last 10 years.

A first line centre and a #1 defenceman.

Maybe you could squash Phaneuf in that role, but centre has been a gaping hole for the leafs for WAY too long.

That's why I'm suggesting getting Stall out of Carolina. Sure he's not the youngest, but I really think he would transform this team - because then everyone is slotted down where they belong.

I think Phaneuf is adequate for the #1 spot. The bigger problem is there's a pretty big gap to our #2. Phaneuf would really benefit from having another defenseman closer to his talent level on the team.

 

[ZBBM]

I don't think Kessel is going to "grow" in maturity, BTW.

He's not immature, jeebus.

Uh, yeah, he is.  Vets don't let guys like Feschuk get under their skin and goad them into name-calling.

 

[MetalRaven]

I see JVR and Clarkson as "stand in front of the net get garbage goal" types. (I hate the term garbage goal) With a properly setup cycle I feel both players will do much better. The problem with the rush is its hard to setup that net presence without great speed and skating ability. I feel JVR has both and is the reason he didn't flounder under Carlyle. Clarkson however is well you all know hes as graceful as a swan...trying to skate. I believe that if the Leafs teach a solid cycle game (to compliment the rush game) then we will see greater value out of Clarkson. He can't keep up to the rush but the will is there which is why he falls all the time.

 

[Joe S.]

They don't need an overhaul. They've needed the same 2 things for the last 10 years.

A first line centre and a #1 defenceman.

Maybe you could squash Phaneuf in that role, but centre has been a gaping hole for the leafs for WAY too long.

That's why I'm suggesting getting Stall out of Carolina. Sure he's not the youngest, but I really think he would transform this team - because then everyone is slotted down where they belong.

I think Phaneuf is adequate for the #1 spot. The bigger problem is there's a pretty big gap to our #2. Phaneuf would really benefit from having another defenseman closer to his talent level on the team.

That should be Rielly. IF we go by the accurate talent assessment system (NHL 2015) he went from a 94 to a 91 in 4 seasons, and has won 2 Norris trophies, 1 Hart and a Conn Smythe, so I think they'll be fine.

 

[Redleaf]

I don't think Kessel is going to "grow" in maturity, BTW.

He's not immature, jeebus.

Uh, yeah, he is.  Vets don't let guys like Feschuk get under their skin and goad them into name-calling.

Kessel has some maturity issues. I think the whole team in general does to some extent. Maybe it runs off Kessel, but the inconsistencies stem from key players not willing to change their games for the benefit of the group.

Should be interesting to hear what Carlyle says about this team once he starts to talk to the media, but I bet it's simlar to what Wilson said yesterday: Emotion overriding good decison making.

 

[Joe S.]

I don't think Kessel is going to "grow" in maturity, BTW.

He's not immature, jeebus.

Uh, yeah, he is.  Vets don't let guys like Feschuk get under their skin and goad them into name-calling.

Correct.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q4Ig-N5p60[/youtube]

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I don't think Kessel is going to "grow" in maturity, BTW.

He's not immature, jeebus.

Uh, yeah, he is.  Vets don't let guys like Feschuk get under their skin and goad them into name-calling.

Correct.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q4Ig-N5p60[/youtube]

*applause*

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't think Kessel is going to "grow" in maturity, BTW.

He's not immature, jeebus.

Uh, yeah, he is.  Vets don't let guys like Feschuk get under their skin and goad them into name-calling.

Correct.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q4Ig-N5p60[/youtube]

Exactly.  And I'm sure there's tons more throughout recent NHL history.  I just think it's ridiculous to take interactions with media as a sign of maturity or lack thereof.  It's nothing but occasional interesting interactions in a sea of bland platitudes and cliches.  Even Ron Wilson blew up at Howard Berger at one point - is he immature at 50-60 years old?

Disliking a reporter who has publicly called you fat, lazy and has repeatedly attacked you in the media  and saying it to his face isn't immaturity.

 

[Redleaf]

[quote author=Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate olink=topic=2830.msg209889#msg209889 date=1420648037]
I don't think Kessel is going to "grow" in maturity, BTW.

He's not immature, jeebus.

Uh, yeah, he is.  Vets don't let guys like Feschuk get under their skin and goad them into name-calling.

Correct.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q4Ig-N5p60[/youtube]
[/quote]

In fairness to reference to the Kessel interview yesterday, this one looks like a complete setup. Funny though.

 

[herman]

I see JVR and Clarkson as "stand in front of the net get garbage goal" types. (I hate the term garbage goal) With a properly setup cycle I feel both players will do much better. The problem with the rush is its hard to setup that net presence without great speed and skating ability. I feel JVR has both and is the reason he didn't flounder under Carlyle. Clarkson however is well you all know hes as graceful as a swan...trying to skate. I believe that if the Leafs teach a solid cycle game (to compliment the rush game) then we will see greater value out of Clarkson. He can't keep up to the rush but the will is there which is why he falls all the time.

Carlyle never really wanted the rush game. That was just the comfort zone that JvR - Bozak - Kessel found and couldn't get away from. He preached puck possession in the O-zone (cycling), but he also preached dump and chase + net-front collapse, so the Leafs never had the puck to establish useful possession. He also ran 2 lines ragged so that top line never had the gas at the end of games to do much. Because of that, that top line stuck with what worked for them (due to preternatural shooting ability): the rush.

Clarkson just has a lot of trouble playing with the puck (and sometimes without) in general. Because of his tendency to treat the puck like a live hand grenade, or fall at the slightest breeze, he kills rushes and cycles with great aplomb.

 

[MetalRaven]

I see JVR and Clarkson as "stand in front of the net get garbage goal" types. (I hate the term garbage goal) With a properly setup cycle I feel both players will do much better. The problem with the rush is its hard to setup that net presence without great speed and skating ability. I feel JVR has both and is the reason he didn't flounder under Carlyle. Clarkson however is well you all know hes as graceful as a swan...trying to skate. I believe that if the Leafs teach a solid cycle game (to compliment the rush game) then we will see greater value out of Clarkson. He can't keep up to the rush but the will is there which is why he falls all the time.

Carlyle never really wanted the rush game. That was just the comfort zone that JvR - Bozak - Kessel found and couldn't get away from. He preached puck possession in the O-zone (cycling), but he also preached dump and chase + net-front collapse, so the Leafs never had the puck to establish useful possession. He also ran 2 lines ragged so that top line never had the gas at the end of games to do much. Because of that, that top line stuck with what worked for them (due to preternatural shooting ability): the rush.

Clarkson just has a lot of trouble playing with the puck (and sometimes without) in general. Because of his tendency to treat the puck like a live hand grenade, or fall at the slightest breeze, he kills rushes and cycles with great aplomb.

Im probably just rationalizing because I can't wrap my head around why he always looks so lost and confused.