The media predictions for the Leafs.

[Kin]

Of what?

Of his ability to fill the position.

 

[Tigger]

Of what?

Of his ability to fill the position.

I think you missed what he was asking.

 

[Kin]

I think you missed what he was asking.

No, I grasped it. I just answered in the context of a "#1 centre" being a position rather than a loose set of attributes.

 

[bustaheims]

I think the crux of the issue here is the difference between a 1st line centre and a centre who plays on their team's 1st line. There are not 30 of the former, whereas there are, at any point in the season, 30 of the latter - and that's the category that Grabovski would potentially fall in. He's conceivably capable of playing centre on his team's 1st line, but he's not a 1st line centre - the high end of his game hasn't shown itself to be high enough.

 

[Tigger]

I think you missed what he was asking.

No, I grasped it. I just answered in the context of a "#1 centre" being a position rather than a loose set of attributes.

From what I can tell you were only re-enforcing why he remains thought of as a number 2 not what would push him to be a number 1 but if the answer is 'when the fans and management say so', well ok I guess.

 

[Kin]

From what I can tell you were only re-enforcing why he remains thought of as a number 2 not what would push him to be a number 1 but if the answer is 'when the fans and management say so', well ok I guess.

The problem is that the answer to "what would make him a #1 centre" is pretty unhelpful and that's that he'd have to be better. There's no one thing he'd have to be better at but rather that, in order for management and fans to be happy with him as the team's #1 centre, he'd have to be a significantly improved player in one or several areas.

"When the fans and management say so" isn't an arbitrary distinction.

 

[Tigger]

From what I can tell you were only re-enforcing why he remains thought of as a number 2 not what would push him to be a number 1 but if the answer is 'when the fans and management say so', well ok I guess.

The problem is that the answer to "what would make him a #1 centre" is pretty unhelpful and that's that he'd have to be better. There's no one thing he'd have to be better at but rather that, in order for management and fans to be happy with him as the team's #1 centre, he'd have to be a significantly improved player in one or several areas.

"When the fans and management say so" isn't an arbitrary distinction.

...and BWB was asking what area or areas would need improvement.

 

[Kin]

He's conceivably capable of playing centre on his team's 1st line, but he's not a 1st line centre - the high end of his game hasn't shown itself to be high enough.

Yeah. And points aren't the be all and end all of the discussion but if you look at who Grabo's season compared to last year you find a bunch of guys that I don't think we'd be happy with as the #1 centre on the team. Umberger, Plekanec, Bergeron. Asking why, after a 29-29 season, Grabo isn't considered a #1 centre seems to be pretty self explanatory.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

...and BWB was asking what area or areas would need improvement.

Right, I'm certainly not ruling it out, as I haven't seen him take a step back, or even appear like he won't improve any further. Some wrote him off before last year and he made them eat it IMO. I see no reason that he can't raise the bar even higher this season, until I see otherwise, I think the book on Grabovski is somewhat still out as to his ceiling.

 

[Kin]

...and BWB was asking what area or areas would need improvement.

Right, and, to repeat myself there are no specific areas. He could make the leap being better at just about anything and it's not a strictly statistical measurement.

But I do appreciate that you weren't satisfied with my answer to his question.

 

[Tigger]

...and BWB was asking what area or areas would need improvement.

Right, and, to repeat myself there are no specific areas.

Hilarious, ok.

 

[Kin]

Hilarious, ok.

Next time I'll go with "playing hockey" if that's more your speed.

 

[Bullfrog]

That's easy... there are 30 or more centers that are better than Grabovski.

I don't think that's true especially with price performance.

I'm not sure how price-performance (god, i hate that term) comes in to play in evaluating whether a player is considered a #1 centre.

 

[Tigger]

That's easy... there are 30 or more centers that are better than Grabovski.

I don't think that's true especially with price performance.

I'm not sure how price-performance (god, i hate that term) comes in to play in evaluating whether a player is considered a #1 centre.

Well, on one side is 'what is a #1' where I'd agree it's a much much smaller consideration on the other is 'better' from his quote which is a little different in meaning to me so it was more of a thought in reference to that.

 

[Jalili]

One question? why it it that even after a 29-29 season grabo is not classed as a #1 center. i think we have had a top center all along we just needed to wait for him to get to this point. i'm betting he improves on his numbers this season. and as for Simmons he is a typical to media writer, always down on there team, maybe some day they will do it right and get behind there team. the leafs will be better then eight this year.

That's easy... there are 30 or more centers that are better than Grabovski.

I don't think that's true especially with price performance.

You don't? I went to nhl.com, did a check of the top centers and got to 30 pretty quickly...

I didn't consider price performance as a factor though.

 

[Tigger]

One question? why it it that even after a 29-29 season grabo is not classed as a #1 center. i think we have had a top center all along we just needed to wait for him to get to this point. i'm betting he improves on his numbers this season. and as for Simmons he is a typical to media writer, always down on there team, maybe some day they will do it right and get behind there team. the leafs will be better then eight this year.

That's easy... there are 30 or more centers that are better than Grabovski.

I don't think that's true especially with price performance.

You don't? I went to nhl.com, did a check of the top centers and got to 30 pretty quickly...

I didn't consider price performance as a factor though.

So I went to NHL.com just to see and hit 'centre' under 'summary' and he was 23rd in scoring so I kept looking, 13th in +/-, 25th in Pim's, 7th in PP goals, tied with 16th to 28th place for shorties, 10th in shots...

Being 127th on faceoffs, 116th in hits.. those could be better, well if we're talking about those numbers...

 

[Tigger]

11th in goals...

 

[Bender]

11th in goals...

He's a bit of a tweener I think. He's pretty high end for a 2nd line centre.

 

[Tigger]

11th in goals...

He's a bit of a tweener I think. He's pretty high end for a 2nd line centre.

I honestly think that if he continues along his ornery way and enjoys a generous improvement on faceoff success it could contribute as much as 10 points to his offensive production.

 

[Bender]

Wrong thread