The MMA Thread
- Thread starter seahawk
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seahawk
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Lesnar-Overeem headline the next UFC PPV on Friday night. The card will also go back to a 10pm start after seeing PPV buy rates drop at the 9pm start time. Donald "Cowboy" Cerrone and Nate Diaz is the co-main. The only Canadian content on this card is Toronto's Sean "The Punisher" Pierson who faces Dong Hyun "Stun Gun" Kim in a prelim.
In other news, Miguel Torres has been reinstated by Dana White after a recent meeting in Vegas. Also, Brendan Schaub and Ben Rothwell have agreed to fight at UFC 145 in Montreal in March.
In other news, Miguel Torres has been reinstated by Dana White after a recent meeting in Vegas. Also, Brendan Schaub and Ben Rothwell have agreed to fight at UFC 145 in Montreal in March.
sucka said:
Funny how the prelims were more fun than the actual fights. Nate Diaz is a total punk, not sure why cowboy didn't use his kicks or anything at all. Cowboy did not look ready for the fight at all.
Lesnar looked shaky right away. Overeem headfaked him a couple times and Lesnar had some really bad flinches. A couple shots to the stomach and a liver kick and it was over for Lesnar barely before it started. IMO, the hype has finally died: Lesnar was never a good fighter. He was big and that's how he won. Face someone just as big but who's an excellent technical fighter and he got absolutely destroyed.
Bender said:
It is funny how everone is ready to jump down Lesnar's throat.
The guys last three fights were all after considerable time off due to a serious injury on top of being new to the sports and in his mid thirties.
There are holes in his game, but, when healthy and when he was a champion he was much faster and more athletic. His age and the serious trauma his body has been through has been catching up to him.
He was good fighter, but losing two years of training with savages improving on a day to day basis is going to catch up to you at some point.
Trolloc said:
Brock would've lost even without the injury, no question. I've been a critic of Lesnar ever since he joined. He's a hype machine and will ground and pound and that's about it. He's a big brawler, not a good technical fighter.
Let's just look at his record.
Heath Herring: Who? This guy's big but he's a nobody with a bad record.
Randy Couture: Come on. The guy is ancient.
He has a 1-1 record against Mir, ok, good. And he also beat Shane Carwin, also a good defense. But he was exposed horribly by Cain Velasquez, and Overeem would've won regardless, he has far, far, far more experience.
Lesnar was a big brute and probably good popularising MMA, but I always viewed him as an overhyped brute.
I agree, injury or not, Brock is just one dimensional. He was totally exposed after the Carwin match. Surprised that Dana didn't slow play this hand and ease him back in with some lesser name. He had to have an inkling that Brock's pride wouldn't have let himself continue after another loss. He's a PPV machine so i'm surprised Dana threw him back in so quickly.
The argument can be made that Brock has defeated more legitimate heavyweights than Overeem. Overeem's biggest wins are Brock Lesnar and Werdum, he hasn't beat anyone else relevant in the heavy weight division. His win versus Werdum was one of the most disappointing fights in 2011 for me. Overeem has superb at striking and was getting out striked by Werdum in the later rounds because he was getting gassed. Overeem is not a natural heavyweight and is in for trouble if he can't win in the first round. A Brock that could take a few more punches or dodge an aggressive Overeem , he would be a favourite to win in the second and third rounds. That is coming from a fan of Overeem. Reem is one of the nicest guys in the sport that is likely the most well rounded fighter in the division.
As for Brock. He can't control the hype. However, he was much better than you're giving him credit for. The man beat three top 10 heavy weights that were top five at the time. He has great wrestling and atheism. He also was just training MMA for just a few years while accomplishing that. If you followed his career at all, you'd see in his last three fights he was much slower.
When he avoided the surgery prior to the Carwin/Cain fights, he could only train at 50%. If he would train any harder he would risk having half of his intestines removed. With JDS he felt the need to train harder after his defeat which stressed his body on brought the disease back. He was off over a year and fought a more balanced fighter who had an active year.
I think you don't value the significance of the disease Brock hard. It is very easy from the sidelines to criticise people, but, these men are in a sport which requires you go at full speed for 3 to 5 rounds while taking vicious impact to the body. Have you ever trained any mixed martial art or went through a significant surgery. It was clear his body could barely withstand blows any more on top of being significantly slower than his previous fights.
While the heavy weight division was thin when Brock came. You will have a difficult time finding anyone that defeated top level opponents that early in their careers. Especially someone who was ten years departed from doing wrestling at a competitive level. Laugh at the Herring win also, but Herring was veteran with much more experience and Brock was a puppy.
Brock is not even my consideration for top 10 heavy weight of all time. That being said, any MMA can recognized he made significant accomplishments in a sort time and had a an uphill battle with health that limited his full potential.
As for Brock. He can't control the hype. However, he was much better than you're giving him credit for. The man beat three top 10 heavy weights that were top five at the time. He has great wrestling and atheism. He also was just training MMA for just a few years while accomplishing that. If you followed his career at all, you'd see in his last three fights he was much slower.
When he avoided the surgery prior to the Carwin/Cain fights, he could only train at 50%. If he would train any harder he would risk having half of his intestines removed. With JDS he felt the need to train harder after his defeat which stressed his body on brought the disease back. He was off over a year and fought a more balanced fighter who had an active year.
I think you don't value the significance of the disease Brock hard. It is very easy from the sidelines to criticise people, but, these men are in a sport which requires you go at full speed for 3 to 5 rounds while taking vicious impact to the body. Have you ever trained any mixed martial art or went through a significant surgery. It was clear his body could barely withstand blows any more on top of being significantly slower than his previous fights.
While the heavy weight division was thin when Brock came. You will have a difficult time finding anyone that defeated top level opponents that early in their careers. Especially someone who was ten years departed from doing wrestling at a competitive level. Laugh at the Herring win also, but Herring was veteran with much more experience and Brock was a puppy.
Brock is not even my consideration for top 10 heavy weight of all time. That being said, any MMA can recognized he made significant accomplishments in a sort time and had a an uphill battle with health that limited his full potential.
Trolloc said:
True, he can't control the hype, but so what? The gushing of praise on Lesnar who didn't have a good record definitely colors how I look at him. I didn't say Lesnar was one of the worst fighters ever, but he was overhyped and exposed for what he is. Sure, the surgery took its toll on him, but if he's not ready then what's he doing fighting a guy like Overeem in the first place?
He's special because he's a physical specimen, and he won because he is a physical specimen. There's nothing wrong with that, but I just disagree with the general consensus that he was one of the best in the world behind Dos Santos and Velasquez.
Bender said:
As of right now, I would still consider him top 5... so he is just behind those two.
JDS, Overeem, Cain... Brock
I don't see Mir, Nog, Nelson, or Werdum being able to take him.
From StrikeForce Silva, Cormier, Barnett...not too sure. I would like to see them before UFC opponents before I can really say.
Trolloc said:
Lesnar is a superb wrestler, but could not counter a good standup fighter. JDS is a superb striker but able to counter takedown attempts from a wrestler. Lesnar, in comparison is much more a one trick pony compared to others such as JDS and Overeem. I am glad that the top fighters are all nice guys. Proves you don't have to be an arsehole to be the best.
sucka said:
I was being a bit sarcastic. Lesnar is hard to take down and extremely athletic, I don't think he is one dimensional at all. More one dimensional than JDS and Overeem? I agree. Although, I'd be interested to see JDS versus Overeem and Cain again.
Although his TDD was tested by Carwin who is no slouch.
I just think Brock is a top 5 in the UFC even at his deteriorating rate. While the division is weak, that is still an accomplishment. I find it somewhat annoying that a bunch of fans are writing him as talentless when there are legitimate reasons for his poor performances. How often do we see a fighter come back 100% after a year layoff or a major surgery? Especially when they're thrown back into the ring with monsters.
I can't wait for the UFC to merge with StrikeForce, the heavyweight division will have the most depth in its history. I would rank the division in the following manner.
1. Junior dos Santos
2. Alistair Overeem
3. Cain Velasquez
4. Josh Barnett
5. Shane Carwin
6. Frank Mir
7. Daniel Cormier
8. Antonio Silva
9. Fabricio Werdum
10. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
seahawk
New member
Darryl said:
It's the beginning of a wave of over saturating the market. There's been so many events over the last while, it's easy for one to drop off the radar. This event wasn't heavily promoted, despite having a title fight as the main event, and there wasn't much in perceived quality on the rest of the card. I completely forgot about the card until the night of and working until midnight meant I wasn't ordering it.
seahawk
New member
Big Country Nelson came into his fight tonight at 246, but Fabricio Werdum has been teeing off on him. Nelson already bleeding from the bridge of the nose. The doctor has already been brought in to look at it. In other action, Josh Koscheck and Mike Pierce exchanged plenty of trash talk before the fight, but I think Kos was lucky to escape with a split decision.