The Official 2011/2012 Armchair GM thread

[Corn Flake]

Team 1200 and Pierre McGuire talked about Jordan Staal situation this morning.

Pierre did say he doesn't think they will trade him but IF he was the MTL GM he would pick up the phone and call Shero and say "hey Ray, the drafts in Pittsburgh this year, we know it might be tough to keep the big 3 together long-term (all 3 need new deals in the next 2 summers) so how about the 3rd pick overall for Staal?  Assuming he signs an extension of course."

It's pretty much the same thing we discussed here last week here with the Leafs and the 5th pick.

Anyways, thought that was interesting.

Not to rehash old material, but I really, Really, REALLY hope the Leafs don't trade the pick.  Or, more accurately, I suppose what I'm trying to do is state the obvious is that I hope they don't trade the pick for a mediocre return.  I love Stall and what he brings, but the fifth for Stall (or Nash for that matter) is not something I'd be thrilled over.

Agreed.. and just to note that Pierre didn't get the GM job in Montreal so his ideas while fun on radio may not be what owners want to hear.

 

[Champ Kind]

I'm just so uneasy dealing the fifth overall.  This is potentially a player that can step in and be effective right away, with the likelihodd of developing into something really, really good in a short timeframe.  I'm thinking of Landeskog and Couturier here.  I'm not certain blowing the teams brains out on Nash - when Parise may be available - is anything I'd entertain at this point in time.

 

[rdowdall]

Team 1200 and Pierre McGuire talked about Jordan Staal situation this morning.

Pierre did say he doesn't think they will trade him but IF he was the MTL GM he would pick up the phone and call Shero and say "hey Ray, the drafts in Pittsburgh this year, we know it might be tough to keep the big 3 together long-term (all 3 need new deals in the next 2 summers) so how about the 3rd pick overall for Staal?  Assuming he signs an extension of course."

It's pretty much the same thing we discussed here last week here with the Leafs and the 5th pick.

Anyways, thought that was interesting.

He also said that he didn't think Stall would be the one that moved. He said somewhat cryptically "I think they move someone else."  Later it was brought up that he thought that Malkin might make more sense because Stall would be signed to a lower deal than Malkin.

 

[Deebo]

Team 1200 and Pierre McGuire talked about Jordan Staal situation this morning.

Pierre did say he doesn't think they will trade him but IF he was the MTL GM he would pick up the phone and call Shero and say "hey Ray, the drafts in Pittsburgh this year, we know it might be tough to keep the big 3 together long-term (all 3 need new deals in the next 2 summers) so how about the 3rd pick overall for Staal?  Assuming he signs an extension of course."

It's pretty much the same thing we discussed here last week here with the Leafs and the 5th pick.

Anyways, thought that was interesting.

He also said that he didn't think Stall would be the one that moved. He said somewhat cryptically "I think they move someone else."  Later it was brought up that he thought that Malkin might make more sense because Stall would be signed to a lower deal than Malkin.

Well if it's Malkin they end up moving, I'd trade the 5th overall+ whatever else.

I don't know if the Leafs even have enough to trade for Malkin.

 

[Corn Flake]

I'm just so uneasy dealing the fifth overall.  This is potentially a player that can step in and be effective right away, with the likelihodd of developing into something really, really good in a short timeframe.  I'm thinking of Landeskog and Couturier here.  I'm not certain blowing the teams brains out on Nash - when Parise may be available - is anything I'd entertain at this point in time.

I say you always take the best player you can get and in virtually any trade the team that gets the best player [in the long run] wins the deal.

So if you are evaluating who you can get at #5 vs. a trade, it's a tough call to say that player will be better than Staal, or as some of the talk suggests... Malkin... you would be taking a big gamble to say it's the pick, and probably wait 5 years to find out. 

 

[rdowdall]

Team 1200 and Pierre McGuire talked about Jordan Staal situation this morning.

Pierre did say he doesn't think they will trade him but IF he was the MTL GM he would pick up the phone and call Shero and say "hey Ray, the drafts in Pittsburgh this year, we know it might be tough to keep the big 3 together long-term (all 3 need new deals in the next 2 summers) so how about the 3rd pick overall for Staal?  Assuming he signs an extension of course."

It's pretty much the same thing we discussed here last week here with the Leafs and the 5th pick.

Anyways, thought that was interesting.

He also said that he didn't think Stall would be the one that moved. He said somewhat cryptically "I think they move someone else."  Later it was brought up that he thought that Malkin might make more sense because Stall would be signed to a lower deal than Malkin.

Well if it's Malkin they end up moving, I'd trade the 5th overall+ whatever else.

I don't know if the Leafs even have enough to trade for Malkin.

Your not going to get value for value if you trade Malkin.  So in that case you are dealing to fill out your depth and keep your development program moving forward.  The 5th + a bunch of things would probably get it done.  I just don't know how many bunch of things they would need to offer, and I am not sure what other teams would be willing to offer.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't know if the Leafs even have enough to trade for Malkin.

They do. Every team in the league does. The bigger issue is whether the Leafs can put together a good enough trade package that the Penguins will be willing to accept, is the better offer out there and doesn't strip the team down to its bare bones - and, that I don't think the Leafs can do.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Reports that San Jose's owners want changes, could be some guys on the move there.

SHARKS OWNERS CALL FOR CHANGES FOLLOWING EARLY PLAYOFF EXIT

"The Sharks are somewhat limited in what changes they can make on the roster because of the salary cap, an expiring collective bargaining agreement that is expected to slow player movement and an aging roster that includes a handful of players who have limitations on where they can be traded.

There is still a talented core led by captain Joe Thornton, franchise scoring leader Patrick Marleau, Logan Couture, Joe Pavelski, Brent Burns and Dan Boyle. But Wilson said there will be changes with the degree of them still to be determined."

 

[bustaheims]

But Wilson said there will be changes with the degree of them still to be determined."

It wouldn't surprise me if one of the first changes is that Doug Wilson is no longer in charge of making these changes.

Not that Wilson's teams have been bad - it's just that there's always seem to have been the feeling that they should have been better.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

From a pens fan:

Toronto gets:
Staal
Tangradi

Pens get:
Kulemin
Colborne


Yes, please.

Would that work with the cap?

 

[Zee]

From a pens fan:

Toronto gets:
Staal
Tangradi

Pens get:
Kulemin
Colborne


Yes, please.

Would that work with the cap?

They'll have to be other changes, I can't imagine both of Lombardi and Armstrong sticking around at $3.5M and $3M each so yeah they can fit Staal's $4 in there.

 

[Corn Flake]

From a pens fan:

Toronto gets:
Staal
Tangradi

Pens get:
Kulemin
Colborne


Yes, please.

Would that work with the cap?

They'll have to be other changes, I can't imagine both of Lombardi and Armstrong sticking around at $3.5M and $3M each so yeah they can fit Staal's $4 in there.

Who cares. If this deal can be done, get it done and figure out the cap situation later.

 

[Tigger]

From a pens fan:

Toronto gets:
Staal
Tangradi

Pens get:
Kulemin
Colborne


Yes, please.

Would that work with the cap?

They'll have to be other changes, I can't imagine both of Lombardi and Armstrong sticking around at $3.5M and $3M each so yeah they can fit Staal's $4 in there.

Who cares. If this deal can be done, get it done and figure out the cap situation later.

I've harped on this before but there will be a cap increase and they're allowed 10% over before whatever happens with the new CBA. They'll be flexible before the crap hits the fan so yeah, if a really valuable player comes along that pushes the edge of the potential cap some get him and deal with it later.

 

[Britishbulldog]

So if not much is going to happen with the roster besides a big center (read J Staal @ $4.0 MIL, Getzlaf @ $5.3 or  Joe Thornton @ $7.0) and a veteran goalie (between $3.5 and $5.5 MIL)there isn't a lot of cap space to do it.

Leafs have a little over $7 MIL with 6 roster spaces to fill including acquiring the goalie and big center and re-signing Matt Frattin, Kulemin and Franson who I expect to make $1.1, $2.9 and $1.325 respectively eating another $1.5 MIL and leaving $6.0 MIL.  The 2 pressbox forwards which is usually averages $0.75 each for $1.5 MIL leaving $4.5 MIL. 

If a GM is supposed to leave around $2.0 MIL in space for injuries, etc then Burke only has $2.5 MIL in space with the current roster to add with for 1 forward and 1 veteran goalie making it virtually impossible to fill either position with a UFA as Burke will have to shed salary.

J. Staal is obviously the cheapest alternative probably costing Kulemin and Bozak which is a wash in salary.  Trading for Thornton becomes tricky though.

The nasty contracts for me are Connolly, Komisarek and Armstrong.  $12.25 MIL of icky.  Lombardi might do a Lupul this year but if not... his $3.5 MIL is almost brutal as well considering Kadri would probably out perform Lombardi at a 1/3 of the cap hit.

That is why I keep slipping into fantasies of cleaning house with the current Leaf roster.  There isn't much possible in reality.

 

[maplesyrup]

I just mentioned him in another thread but what about Moen? Carlyle obviously knows the player and had him playing at his highest level.

 

[Etiam Vultus]

I just mentioned him in another thread but what about Moen? Carlyle obviously knows the player and had him playing at his highest level.

Moen should be a candidate to consider, but given the Leafs salary cap issues can they even consider third and fourth line players who make over $1,000,000?  There are already too many making much more than than, e.g. Armstrong, Lombardi, Connolly. 

The Leafs are going to have to find a way to move some salary, but whatever space they free up they need to reinvest in a goalie and a top line centre.

 

[Corn Flake]

From a pens fan:

Toronto gets:
Staal
Tangradi

Pens get:
Kulemin
Colborne


Yes, please.

Would that work with the cap?

They'll have to be other changes, I can't imagine both of Lombardi and Armstrong sticking around at $3.5M and $3M each so yeah they can fit Staal's $4 in there.

Who cares. If this deal can be done, get it done and figure out the cap situation later.

I've harped on this before but there will be a cap increase and they're allowed 10% over before whatever happens with the new CBA. They'll be flexible before the crap hits the fan so yeah, if a really valuable player comes along that pushes the edge of the potential cap some get him and deal with it later.

The other big market teams approach it this way and they are the ones in the post season and the Leafs are not. More of their free agents work out than ours, even if they don't get full value, and I think this is a big reason why.

"Frugal" should not be in the vocabulary in Toronto anymore when it comes to going all out to get the right players when they are available.  ie: Toronto should not be worried about cap hit and term when it comes to Suter and Parise possibly being available on July 1.  This is where to me, Burke's "We're Big Blue" and his stance on contract terms don't match up.  Although to be fair he has said he would be willing to go longer than 5 years for the right players.  Both of those guys are the right players.  Maybe two of the best to hit the open market in a long time. 

edit: in other words from a cap perspective, if signing Suter or not means burying Komisarek and Armstrong in the minors, I say.. "flusssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhh".

 

[Zee]

From a pens fan:

Toronto gets:
Staal
Tangradi

Pens get:
Kulemin
Colborne


Yes, please.

Would that work with the cap?

They'll have to be other changes, I can't imagine both of Lombardi and Armstrong sticking around at $3.5M and $3M each so yeah they can fit Staal's $4 in there.

Who cares. If this deal can be done, get it done and figure out the cap situation later.

I've harped on this before but there will be a cap increase and they're allowed 10% over before whatever happens with the new CBA. They'll be flexible before the crap hits the fan so yeah, if a really valuable player comes along that pushes the edge of the potential cap some get him and deal with it later.

The other big market teams approach it this way and they are the ones in the post season and the Leafs are not. More of their free agents work out than ours, even if they don't get full value, and I think this is a big reason why.

"Frugal" should not be in the vocabulary in Toronto anymore when it comes to going all out to get the right players when they are available.  ie: Toronto should not be worried about cap hit and term when it comes to Suter and Parise possibly being available on July 1.  This is where to me, Burke's "We're Big Blue" and his stance on contract terms don't match up.  Although to be fair he has said he would be willing to go longer than 5 years for the right players.  Both of those guys are the right players.  Maybe two of the best to hit the open market in a long time. 

edit: in other words from a cap perspective, if signing Suter or not means burying Komisarek and Armstrong in the minors, I say.. "flusssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhh".

It'll be a huge statement by Burke if he opens up the vault and gets even one of these 2.  He'll need to have backing from ownership on any long term deal as well.  We'll see if Burke's summer "scramble mode" gets the Leafs some big names or not.

 

[Corn Flake]

It'll be a huge statement by Burke if he opens up the vault and gets even one of these 2.  He'll need to have backing from ownership on any long term deal as well.  We'll see if Burke's summer "scramble mode" gets the Leafs some big names or not.

Yes it would be.  Every time I think about both players, I of course slump down when I realize the likelihood of a) them making it to UFA being slim, and b) the Leafs winning the sweeps even slimmer, I can't help but feel that if Big Blue wants a player they should be out there doing everything they can to get that player.  Stop being cheap, stop being all anal retentive about keeping all our precious prospects and risking giving up a future elite star from our system, etc etc.

Brad Richards vs. Tim Connolly... we get the distant 2nd choice that fails and the Rangers walk away with the grand prize yet again.  yes yes I know B.R. is overpaid, crazy term, etc blah blah blah but it's not just about him.. it's about getting the best available and not settling with crap that doesn't do the job.  We got crap and Burke now has to spend all kinds of money to replace the crap he got in Connolly.

if Philli or NYR wanted Parise and Suter, which they both probably do, and the Devils/Preds weren't going to get him signed, they would go make the preemptive trade for his rights to give it a shot. Philli traded a 3rd to try and sign Hamhuis then flipped him again when he wouldn't.  They did this years ago for Hartnell and Timmonen and it did work out.  Why are the Leafs not a team doing this? Will they be this time? Do we have enough parts in the cupboard now to try this? Maybe we didn't before but we do now? Burke said he felt he had the parts to make the deals he wanted to make.  Ok, go.

In Parise and Suter, I can't really think of two players more suited to be exactly what Burke said he would break the bank for, short of Stamkos/Crosby level players.  So go get them.. even if it means trading picks or a prospect and signing them to ridiculous money.  For the first time in a very long time (CUJO?), can we please be the winners of getting the best player out there?

/end foot stomping rant.

 

[cw]

edit: in other words from a cap perspective, if signing Suter or not means burying Komisarek and Armstrong in the minors, I say.. "flusssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhh".

I think Komisarek has a no move clause so he can't be waived to the minors - just bought out (or traded but that's almost insane to expect).

For silly cap fun/perspective, I gave Frattin & Franson modest raises and signed Komarov for $900,000 and budgets $600,000 for a 14th forward.

I waived Connolly, Lombardi & Armstrong to the minors and bought out Komisarek.

I then tried to add Luongo (no key roster player), Staal (Kulemin/Colborne) & UFA Suter (for $7 mil).

Couldn't. Ran into cap trouble and that's if it remains the same for next season (I think it will go down).

I think the most one could possibly hope for is two higher priced impact players and that would involve some crazy waiving/dumping of contracts - so that's a fairly big stretch. Realistically, Burke could probably add one high priced UFA and then the other would have to come via trades/waivers making cap room. And as we pretty much know, one has to be a goalie.