The Official 2011/2012 Armchair GM thread

[Corn Flake]

Is there really THAT much separting Ryan Suter and Matt Carle?

Oh man... this is a great example of where I think the stats really don't do one bit of justice to comparing players. 

I watched Suter closely through the 1st round and part of the 2nd round and the guy is as calmly solid as they come and can handle the puck with the best of them.  In the d-zone he stays attached to that left post like he's on a bungee cord. 

Carle I saw a fair bit too in the 1st round, which wasn't much of an evaluation of d-men at all.. yeah he has some of the traits and can do the job but boy oh boy when you look at our defense, I think you need to bring in the 100% sure fire stabilizer, or don't bother.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Is there really THAT much separting Ryan Suter and Matt Carle?

Oh man... this is a great example of where I think the stats really don't do one bit of justice to comparing players. 

I watched Suter closely through the 1st round and part of the 2nd round and the guy is as calmly solid as they come and can handle the puck with the best of them.  In the d-zone he stays attached to that left post like he's on a bungee cord. 

Carle I saw a fair bit too in the 1st round, which wasn't much of an evaluation of d-men at all.. yeah he has some of the traits and can do the job but boy oh boy when you look at our defense, I think you need to bring in the 100% sure fire stabilizer, or don't bother.

Suter is probably a top-10 defenceman. I think too many people attribute his success to playing with Weber. While Weber definitely has the bigger shot and more of a physical presence, Suter is arguably the more dependable defenceman. A Suter-Phaneuf pairing would just be ridiculous.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

A Suter-Phaneuf pairing would just be ridiculous.

No doubt.

 

[Tigger]

I'm still pretty interested in Justin Schultz too, though he plays the right side primarily. If the Leafs had a shot at him they would have to trade at least one right side defenceman in all likelihood, still, I'd rather see the team blow a chunk of the bonus cushion budget on this guy than Komarov.

 

[Corn Flake]

Is there really THAT much separting Ryan Suter and Matt Carle?

Oh man... this is a great example of where I think the stats really don't do one bit of justice to comparing players. 

I watched Suter closely through the 1st round and part of the 2nd round and the guy is as calmly solid as they come and can handle the puck with the best of them.  In the d-zone he stays attached to that left post like he's on a bungee cord. 

Carle I saw a fair bit too in the 1st round, which wasn't much of an evaluation of d-men at all.. yeah he has some of the traits and can do the job but boy oh boy when you look at our defense, I think you need to bring in the 100% sure fire stabilizer, or don't bother.

Suter is probably a top-10 defenceman. I think too many people attribute his success to playing with Weber. While Weber definitely has the bigger shot and more of a physical presence, Suter is arguably the more dependable defenceman. A Suter-Phaneuf pairing would just be ridiculous.

I fully agree, based on what I saw in the playoffs.  I watched that pair closely to see if Suter was riding Weber's coattails ...  was not the case at all.  They were at the very least splitting the load, or it may have even tipped towards Suter more like 60/40.  Suter was the one who would get the puck and be out of the zone in 3 strides or get the quick pass out.  All the while, as calm as a monk.  Detroit seemed to be throwing it to his side to avoid Weber but Suter would just calmly pick it up and get it out, or just direct the Wing player to the corner. 

Hmmm so a well-sized, calm, mobile d-man who doesn't panic and plays a quietly solid 25 + min game.  yeah I think our defense could use one of those.

 

[L K]

Is there really THAT much separting Ryan Suter and Matt Carle?

Oh man... this is a great example of where I think the stats really don't do one bit of justice to comparing players. 

I watched Suter closely through the 1st round and part of the 2nd round and the guy is as calmly solid as they come and can handle the puck with the best of them.  In the d-zone he stays attached to that left post like he's on a bungee cord. 

Carle I saw a fair bit too in the 1st round, which wasn't much of an evaluation of d-men at all.. yeah he has some of the traits and can do the job but boy oh boy when you look at our defense, I think you need to bring in the 100% sure fire stabilizer, or don't bother.

Suter is probably a top-10 defenceman. I think too many people attribute his success to playing with Weber. While Weber definitely has the bigger shot and more of a physical presence, Suter is arguably the more dependable defenceman. A Suter-Phaneuf pairing would just be ridiculous.

I fully agree, based on what I saw in the playoffs.  I watched that pair closely to see if Suter was riding Weber's coattails ...  was not the case at all.  They were at the very least splitting the load, or it may have even tipped towards Suter more like 60/40.  Suter was the one who would get the puck and be out of the zone in 3 strides or get the quick pass out.  All the while, as calm as a monk.  Detroit seemed to be throwing it to his side to avoid Weber but Suter would just calmly pick it up and get it out, or just direct the Wing player to the corner. 

Hmmm so a well-sized, calm, mobile d-man who doesn't panic and plays a quietly solid 25 + min game.  yeah I think our defense could use one of those.

He's a very different player than Kaberle, but he would bring that calming influence back to the blueline that Phaneuf/Schenn/Liles/Franson don't bring.  Maybe someday Gardiner can do that too, but right now he's equal parts smooth with the puck and equal parts colossal screw-ups that really limit his ability to slow the game down and get the team reorganized. 

I think the Leafs sorely need that if they are going to continue to run out one of the younger teams in the league.  It would really help put a stop to that give up 1-2-3 goals (and then Wilson calls a timeout) kind of panic that the team was prone to.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

To Columbus: Grabovski, Lombardi or Army, #5, and maybe a prospect.
To Toronto: Nash (and maybe something else - #31 perhaps?)
* Lots of ways to massage this but the principles are Grabo + #5 for Nash. - Lombardi or Army is in there to clear some room. Or, could be dealt with separately (as with the Komi's and Connolly's, etc.) 

Dude, seriously?

Rick Nash is a top five pick and a prospect more valuable than Grabo?

This isn't NHL 12 mate, give your head a shake.

 

[Bender]

To Columbus: Grabovski, Lombardi or Army, #5, and maybe a prospect.
To Toronto: Nash (and maybe something else - #31 perhaps?)
* Lots of ways to massage this but the principles are Grabo + #5 for Nash. - Lombardi or Army is in there to clear some room. Or, could be dealt with separately (as with the Komi's and Connolly's, etc.) 

Dude, seriously?

Rick Nash is a top five pick and a prospect more valuable than Grabo?

This isn't NHL 12 mate, give your head a shake.

This is the biggest waste of assets I've seen in a long time.

Galchenyuk/Murray/Forsberg will be more valuable to us for a longer period of time than Nash. We give up our second line centre who is probably the best two way forward on the team. We could make better use of Connolly/Lombardi as well. I think this is just a big waste on our part and is a VERY, WIN NOW mentality. This team is far from Rick Nash minus Lombardi and Grabbo away from competing, and I would argue that actually makes our team AND organization weaker than it is already.

 

[maplesyrup]

I guess I'm higher on Nash than most here. I feel he's simply one of the best wingers in the league so ya, WIGWAL... Seriously.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I guess I'm higher on Nash than most here. I feel he's simply one of the best wingers in the league so ya, WIGWAL... Seriously.

 

[maplesyrup]

WIGWAL, when have I ever trolled? - Ever?

 

[bustaheims]

This is the biggest waste of assets I've seen in a long time.

Galchenyuk/Murray/Forsberg will be more valuable to us for a longer period of time than Nash. We give up our second line centre who is probably the best two way forward on the team. We could make better use of Connolly/Lombardi as well. I think this is just a big waste on our part and is a VERY, WIN NOW mentality. This team is far from Rick Nash minus Lombardi and Grabbo away from competing, and I would argue that actually makes our team AND organization weaker than it is already.

This is basically what I've been saying since the Rick Nash talk started in February.

 

[maplesyrup]

So let's continue to play bingo build through the draft and never jump on opportunities to acquire relatively young superstars when the opportunity arises. YAY!... The Toronto City Royals! Weee! 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Is there really THAT much separting Ryan Suter and Matt Carle?

If I have it right Carle is a right side d where Suter is a left side d, so that's sort of important given the makeup of the Leafs d right now and Suter is putting up points with a relatively anemic offense. Granted he led the team with 25 pp points on the leagues number one pp. Carle had better es point production which is understandable given the kind of team they have.

Suter and Carle led their teams in both aggregate toi as well as per game but the difference was about 3 min toi/g in Suters favour.

I think Suter is more physical and more capable with his defensive assignments too.

I wouldn't call Nashville's offense anemic - they were 8th in the league.  It's not Philly's, but it's not anemic.

I posted this a bunch of pages back:

His numbers don't really seem off at all without Pronger.

A couple articles like this convinced me: http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2012/3/2/2830998/philadelphia-flyers-matt-carle-ryan-suter-nhl-free-agency-2012

I know people would probably love to have Ryan Suter, but I really don't think there is a whole world of difference in the two.  Maybe he's not what we need, but I can't see it not being a positive addition.

And Carle has kept it up with or without Pronger, so this season he hasn't had a Shea Weber-quality partner like Suter.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

WIGWAL, when have I ever trolled? - Ever?

Oh I know you'd never, just goofing around, it's the off-season after all, you know I'm a fan of your work sir.  I guess my before the picture was a little subtle.

Safe to say it's not possible for me to disagree with your proposed trade any more than I presently do. I also don't think Nash is one of the top 10 players in the league and that's the only type of player I'd consider giving that kind of package for and that's again only if I'm looking for more short term gratification than long term building.

 

[Deebo]

WIGWAL, when have I ever trolled? - Ever?

Any time Tim Connoly is discussed?

 

[Deebo]

So let's continue to play bingo build through the draft and never jump on opportunities to acquire relatively young superstars when the opportunity arises. YAY!... The Toronto City Royals! Weee! 

Kessel and Phaneuf?

This time it just doesn't make sense to give up what the Jackets seem to want.

The leafs aren't the only team balking at the price tag, he asked for a trade, gave a list of teams, those teams were interested and none of them could reach a deal.

That should tell you something.

 

[maplesyrup]

Safe to say it's not possible for me to disagree with your proposed trade any more than I presently do. I also don't think Nash is one of the top 10 players in the league and that's the only type of player I'd consider giving that kind of package for and that's again only if I'm looking for more short term gratification than long term building.

Top 10 player in the league? No. I don't think so either bus he's a lock at as one of the top 3,4,5 wingers in the league in my estimation. He's just so good at both ends of the ice and who gives a rats ass about his regular season numbers? He's never had anyone decent to play with and when he has in international play, he's always shown up in a big way. I don't know. I'm just such a fan. Does it fog my judgement? Maybe... but with that said, I stand comfortably beside my proposal.

 

[Deebo]

Safe to say it's not possible for me to disagree with your proposed trade any more than I presently do. I also don't think Nash is one of the top 10 players in the league and that's the only type of player I'd consider giving that kind of package for and that's again only if I'm looking for more short term gratification than long term building.

Top 10 player in the league? No. I don't think so either bus he's a lock at as one of the top 3,4,5 wingers in the league in my estimation. He's just so good at both ends of the ice and who gives a rats ass about his regular season numbers? He's never had anyone decent to play with and when he has in international play, he's always shown up in a big way. I don't know. I'm just such a fan. Does it fog my judgement? Maybe... but with that said, I stand comfortably beside my proposal.

With Bozak, Connolly, Steckel and prosepcts down the middle.

 

[maplesyrup]

WIGWAL, when have I ever trolled? - Ever?

Any time Tim Connoly is discussed?

Oh yeah, right... Trolling to catch all the Connolly fans in to my great net.... Know what? I pulled it out a month ago and guess what? Surprise! Not one fish.