The Unofficial Fire Ron Wilson/Ron Wilson is the Greatest Thread

[Zee]

So how much longer will Ron be able to survive this slow, inevitable march out of a playoff spot?  Will Burke try to pin the blame almost entirely on himself again, given that most of his signings/resignings have continued to disappoint?

All in all, I think this team's a bit of a mess, lacking in the skill, leadership, and confidence which go hand-in-hand with competitiveness and long-term success.  It'll be interesting to see how management attempts to deal with the situation PR-wise if things continue to go badly.

If the skid keeps up I don't think he will last long at all.

I agree.  But I also think that Burke has worn out a lot of a leeway and good-will that came with his arrival here.  You'd have to think that if ihings don't turn around pretty soon (where making the playoffs is the minimum standard for a "turn-around"), he's going to start feeling the heat himself, and with pretty good reason.  The current club doesn't exactly seem like it's the product (or foundation) of a long-term vision for success.

Who is going to hold his feet to the fire though?  Remains to be seen who his boss will be (Peddie's replacement).  Maybe the Rogers/Bell tandem is happy with the "we're making tons of money off this venture, good team or not", and won't change a thing.  We don't know until they take over completely.

 

[Strangelove]

So how much longer will Ron be able to survive this slow, inevitable march out of a playoff spot?  Will Burke try to pin the blame almost entirely on himself again, given that most of his signings/resignings have continued to disappoint?

All in all, I think this team's a bit of a mess, lacking in the skill, leadership, and confidence which go hand-in-hand with competitiveness and long-term success.  It'll be interesting to see how management attempts to deal with the situation PR-wise if things continue to go badly.

If the skid keeps up I don't think he will last long at all.

I agree.  But I also think that Burke has worn out a lot of a leeway and good-will that came with his arrival here.  You'd have to think that if ihings don't turn around pretty soon (where making the playoffs is the minimum standard for a "turn-around"), he's going to start feeling the heat himself, and with pretty good reason.  The current club doesn't exactly seem like it's the product (or foundation) of a long-term vision for success.

Who is going to hold his feet to the fire though?  Remains to be seen who his boss will be (Peddie's replacement).  Maybe the Rogers/Bell tandem is happy with the "we're making tons of money off this venture, good team or not", and won't change a thing.  We don't know until they take over completely.

The short answer to that question is, I would think, the media.  He's mainly been given a free-ride so far by sports pundits (justified or not), but as fans get more and more frustrated by the state of the team and Ronny W can no longer be the focal point of our ire (assuming he's gone), Burke will be next on the list.  It's not like JFJ was fired because the Leafs weren't making lots of money...

 

[skrackle]

The Leafs are good enough this year to be hovering near a playoff spot into the 2nd half of the season. That is an improvement over last year.

They aren't any better than that, though. They aren't going to be neck and neck with Boston or the Rangers, nor are they likely to fall to the bottom of the conference. I expect that it will go right to the wire as to the Leafs making or missing the playoffs. I can't see Wilson getting fired in the middle of that. 

Should a severe losing streak happen, that might be a different story.

 

[Bullfrog]

So how much longer will Ron be able to survive this slow, inevitable march out of a playoff spot?  Will Burke try to pin the blame almost entirely on himself again, given that most of his signings/resignings have continued to disappoint?

All in all, I think this team's a bit of a mess, lacking in the skill, leadership, and confidence which go hand-in-hand with competitiveness and long-term success.  It'll be interesting to see how management attempts to deal with the situation PR-wise if things continue to go badly.

The funny thing is, Burke *almost* cleaned house in the summer by forcing the firing of Acton and Hunter (which Wilson was opposed to), yet he leaves the main guy.  So on the one hand people say "it's the players fault, you can't expect any coach to make a difference if you don't have the players", but then Burke must have felt a slight coaching change could help, otherwise why fire the other 2?  If it's truly "the players fault", shouldn't he have kept Acton and Hunter?  It's as if he tried to hold someone from coaching responsible, just not Wilson.

I don't recall Wilson saying he was opposed to the coaching change. I heard him say he was surprised by it, but not opposed.

 

[Zee]

So how much longer will Ron be able to survive this slow, inevitable march out of a playoff spot?  Will Burke try to pin the blame almost entirely on himself again, given that most of his signings/resignings have continued to disappoint?

All in all, I think this team's a bit of a mess, lacking in the skill, leadership, and confidence which go hand-in-hand with competitiveness and long-term success.  It'll be interesting to see how management attempts to deal with the situation PR-wise if things continue to go badly.

The funny thing is, Burke *almost* cleaned house in the summer by forcing the firing of Acton and Hunter (which Wilson was opposed to), yet he leaves the main guy.  So on the one hand people say "it's the players fault, you can't expect any coach to make a difference if you don't have the players", but then Burke must have felt a slight coaching change could help, otherwise why fire the other 2?  If it's truly "the players fault", shouldn't he have kept Acton and Hunter?  It's as if he tried to hold someone from coaching responsible, just not Wilson.

I don't recall Wilson saying he was opposed to the coaching change. I heard him say he was surprised by it, but not opposed.

?There was significant push back from him,? said Burke. ?Ron was resistant. He?s a loyal guy. His first reaction was ?I believe in these guys.? He was resistant to any kind of change at all.

?But I want to be clear on this. This isn?t the case of a coach making a change. This is the case of the general manager saying it?s time for a change.?

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/20/burke-ordered-wilson-to-fire-coaches

 

[Optimus Reimer]

So how much longer will Ron be able to survive this slow, inevitable march out of a playoff spot?  Will Burke try to pin the blame almost entirely on himself again, given that most of his signings/resignings have continued to disappoint?

All in all, I think this team's a bit of a mess, lacking in the skill, leadership, and confidence which go hand-in-hand with competitiveness and long-term success.  It'll be interesting to see how management attempts to deal with the situation PR-wise if things continue to go badly.

I disagree with skill and long term success.  Burke has been changing this team from the slow team with absolutely no heart, to this team composed of youth and speed.  This is by far one of the fastest Leaf teams I have seen in a long time.  As for skill, just look at what Kadri, Kessel, Lupul, Grabovski, Kulemin, Lombardi are bringing to the team.  I can see a definite core of talent that with time and experience will make this Leafs team a force in the East.

I do agree with you on the experience of Leaf players, but we have to realize that this is the youngest team in the NHL and to be doing better than some of the 'older' teams says something about this team.  Being a young team means that some players do not know the sacrifices that are required to make the team successful.  There is not a real veteran presence in the Leafs locker room - a player that will kick the other players in the back side when it is required.  True that Phaneuf is there, but even he has not had a lot of playoff experience and could learn from the presence of a veteran in the dressing room.

I still expect Burke to make a trade or 2 near the trade deadline to make the team stronger.  He is no longer in a position to get rid of bad contracts because there aren't really any bad contracts on the team, and there aren't really any useless players on the team that need to be moved.  However, if there are players available at or before the trade deadline that are affordable for Burke at the right price, he will make those trades to  compliment and improve the core of talent within the team, and perhaps to add some veteran presence in the locker room.

 

[caver]

I think we have seen some real obvious coaching from Wilson lately and it is helping this team. His line-up changes certainly paid off last night. It seems as though he has given MacArthur enough time to get back to form and now he will have to earn his top 6 spot. Sticking with Gus in net and his current d-men looks like a solid choice too.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

He is no longer in a position to get rid of bad contracts because there aren't really any bad contracts on the team.

What?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The Leafs are good enough this year to be hovering near a playoff spot into the 2nd half of the season. That is an improvement over last year.

Mirtle just tweeted yesterday that they are 12 points ahead of where they were at this point last season.

 

[Optimus Reimer]

He is no longer in a position to get rid of bad contracts because there aren't really any bad contracts on the team.

What?

I was responding to comments above in which some posters indicated the team is a bit of a mess, lacking leadership, skill and confidence...

Financially, the team is not in a mess.  IMHO, no player is being over or underpaid for their value to the team.  Each contract is for a decent time frame which is not choking the team and preventing the team from making moves.  The skill is there, with this being one of the fastest teams in the league, and one of the youngest. 

The one thing the team lacks right now is consistency, and that is due to their youth.  One night, they play like they should be cup contenders, the next night, a midget B team could wipe them off the ice.  The three weaknesses on the team are too many turnovers, the defence not being tough enough every game, and a veteran presence that will kick the players in the back side when the time calls for it.  A veteran presence will help diminish the other weaknesses and provide the team with leadership that the team needs if they want to be considered a playoff threat.

To say the team is a mess is an overstatement, if you look at the team the past 6 seasons.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Financially, the team is not in a mess.  IMHO, no player is being over or underpaid for their value to the team.

Mike Komisarek and Carl Gunnarsson say hello.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

Financially, the team is not in a mess.  IMHO, no player is being over or underpaid for their value to the team.

Mike Komisarek and Carl Gunnarsson say hello.

I would easily add Armstrong and Lombardi to this list.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Financially, the team is not in a mess.  IMHO, no player is being over or underpaid for their value to the team.

Mike Komisarek and Carl Gunnarsson say hello.

I would easily add Armstrong and Lombardi to this list.

Agreed. I just went with the two most obvious.

 

[maplesyrup]

Financially, the team is not in a mess.  IMHO, no player is being over or underpaid for their value to the team.

Mike Komisarek and Carl Gunnarsson say hello.

I would easily add Armstrong and Lombardi to this list.

Agreed. I just went with the two most obvious.

Agreed on all counts. I've been a big Colby supporter but he ain't worth the dough.

 

[Optimus Reimer]

Financially, the team is not in a mess.  IMHO, no player is being over or underpaid for their value to the team.

Mike Komisarek and Carl Gunnarsson say hello.

I would easily add Armstrong and Lombardi to this list.

Agreed. I just went with the two most obvious.

I forgot about Armstrong.  He's been injured so much I forgot he was on the team. 

 

[princedpw]

Financially, the team is not in a mess.  IMHO, no player is being over or underpaid for their value to the team.

Mike Komisarek and Carl Gunnarsson say hello.

I would easily add Armstrong and Lombardi to this list.

Agreed. I just went with the two most obvious.

I forgot about Armstrong.  He's been injured so much I forgot he was on the team.

My feeling on defense is that roughly speaking (and relative to the league average pay ignoring factors like UFA/RFA/etc status):  Phaneuf overpaid by $1million; Komi overpaid by $2 million; Schenn overpaid by $1million.  So there is at least $4 million of "fat" on the defense.  I'm hoping Schenn gets better over the duration of his contract and I would prefer to overpay now but get better price-performance in the following years.

Contracts like Lombardi, Armstrong, Connolly may be slight overpayments, but the contracts are short term.  This gives us useful financial flexibility in the coming years and Lombardi allowed us to buy a prospect (Franson).  So overall, we are better positioned financial and age-wise than we have been.  Still, I think Burke needs to do another round of selling at the deadline to further improve our prospect pool.  If we could get a grade-A prospect or Colorado's first-round pick next year by sending Grabbo to Washington, it might be tough in the short term but beneficial in the coming years.

 

[Corn Flake]

I can pick out 2-3 players on pretty much every team who are overpaid by a million or two.  What's the big deal? The quickly rising cap is to blame for most of that.  Guys like Armstrong would have got $1 mil or less 4 years ago.

If you are bent out of shape about a few $mil here or there just be glad the Leafs are muddled with any of these contracts: Penner, Cambpell, Redden, Horcoff, DiPietro, Ryan Smyth, Lecavellier, Legwand, Kovalchuk, Chris Pronger, Khabibulin, Jovanovski, Drew Doughty (if you think Schenn hit the jackpot, check out Drew).

 

[Champ Kind]

Financially, the team is not in a mess.  IMHO, no player is being over or underpaid for their value to the team.

Mike Komisarek and Carl Gunnarsson say hello.

I would easily add Armstrong and Lombardi to this list.

Agreed. I just went with the two most obvious.

Agreed on all counts. I've been a big Colby supporter but he ain't worth the dough.

To be fair he's been on a non-stop injury roll.  Assessing his value based on performance this year is unfair.  Same goes for Lombardi. 

 

[Optimus Reimer]

Financially, the team is not in a mess.  IMHO, no player is being over or underpaid for their value to the team.

Mike Komisarek and Carl Gunnarsson say hello.

I would easily add Armstrong and Lombardi to this list.

Agreed. I just went with the two most obvious.

Agreed on all counts. I've been a big Colby supporter but he ain't worth the dough.

To be fair he's been on a non-stop injury roll.  Assessing his value based on performance this year is unfair.  Same goes for Lombardi.

I do like Lombardi brings, and we should remember he is coming off a major injury.  Some of us were not sure if he would be playing again.  In all fairness to him, I would like to give him a pass this season, to get his mind and body back in the game.  I think he will be contributing to the Leafs more next season, if he is still with the Leafs.

 

[maplesyrup]

So, how long do I have to wait before anyone gives credit to Wilson for holding the team together after last night's mess? I'm guessing forever.