The Unofficial Fire Ron Wilson/Ron Wilson is the Greatest Thread

[ZBBM]

Keep getting used to him gang...

For all those asking, there is no chance that Brian Burke is even contemplating a change behind the bench.
by JSportsnet via twitter 11:05 AM

That doesn't surprise me in the least. Wilson is very likely going to finish the season.

I do think Wilson is right in that the trade rumours got to his club. It happened with the Lindros rumours in '01 and that club had a lot more veterans. That's the tough part playing for Burke - a player knows he likes to make trades. Add in the Toronto media and it's bound to get to some players.

That may well be true.  But if Wilson is offering it as an excuse, it is the lamest one I've ever heard.

Compare the usual trite responses when some key player gets hurt: "We can't use injuries as an excuse."  Now that has always struck me as utter nonsense; in fact, injuries are one of the few valid excuses for a sudden drop in results that there are.  Being unsettled by the prospect of being traded?  In a league where 95% or more of the players do not have a NTC?  Now that's lame.

I also didn't expect Wilson to be fired at this point -- Burke's in for a dime, in for a dollar.

 

[Kin]

Also, it would surely mean Wilson is gone and that has to make some people a little bit happy or satisfied.

If Burke isn't even contemplating firing Wilson now, I don't know that I'm all that confident that Burke will fire Wilson even if the team misses the playoffs.

I mean, after the season is over you can ask "Who will we get who'll guarantee better results?" and "Do we know for sure what a coaching change will yield?" and get the exact same answers then as now.

 

[leafplasma]

It's kind of weird, seems like most fans will be happy or satisfied in some way if the Leafs don't make the playoffs this year.

I always hope for the best so I can't say I'm happy or satisfied if they miss the playoffs. I was kind of looking forward to it even though I realized it required Reimer '11 goaltending and that might not be in the cards.

But if the choice is:
- grab a little help to squeak in (or fall short) and probably get swept by the Rangers/top club in the 1st round
or
- sell off some assets to grab good young talent which will get us a step closer to truly contending

I'll go with the latter.

The minute the Leafs get into the playoffs, the next question will be: when will the Leafs contend for a Cup. I see the latter option as a better step in that direction that will get them there sooner.

Yeah, me too, hope no-one thought that was a knock or anything either as I include myself somewhat in the 'satisfied' category even if it means they have a disappointing finish this year ( I'd love to see them in the playoffs and always root for them but if it means a step closer, as you say, to truly contending then I'm ok with it ).

Also, it would surely mean Wilson is gone and that has to make some people a little bit happy or satisfied.

I would go with the latter as well.  I wonder if Burke would have fired RW by now had he not signed him to that 1 yr extension.  Burke is a proud man and firing him shortly after the extension would make him look like a fool.

 

[Tigger]

Also, it would surely mean Wilson is gone and that has to make some people a little bit happy or satisfied.

If Burke isn't even contemplating firing Wilson now, I don't know that I'm all that confident that Burke will fire Wilson even if the team misses the playoffs.

I mean, after the season is over you can ask "Who will we get who'll guarantee better results?" and "Do we know for sure what a coaching change will yield?" and get the exact same answers then as now.

Sure but right now missing the playoffs isn't a fact, I think that will make a pretty big difference if it goes that way.

Burke recently said, given that scenario, that what he would do is none of anyone's business which to me gives a bit of insight to what might be an unpalatable decision on his part, I might be reading too much into that but Burke usually has a better answer when he thinks he's sure of something.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

Keep getting used to him gang...

For all those asking, there is no chance that Brian Burke is even contemplating a change behind the bench.
by JSportsnet via twitter 11:05 AM

That doesn't surprise me in the least. Wilson is very likely going to finish the season.

I do think Wilson is right in that the trade rumours got to his club. It happened with the Lindros rumours in '01 and that club had a lot more veterans. That's the tough part playing for Burke - a player knows he likes to make trades. Add in the Toronto media and it's bound to get to some players.

That may well be true.  But if Wilson is offering it as an excuse, it is the lamest one I've ever heard.

Compare the usual trite responses when some key player gets hurt: "We can't use injuries as an excuse."  Now that has always struck me as utter nonsense; in fact, injuries are one of the few valid excuses for a sudden drop in results that there are.  Being unsettled by the prospect of being traded?  In a league where 95% or more of the players do not have a NTC?  Now that's lame.

I also didn't expect Wilson to be fired at this point -- Burke's in for a dime, in for a dollar.

The funny thing after they beat Ottawa 5-0 they were in the driving seat. If they only played so well they would have no reason to be scared of being traded. By being utterly abysmal leading up to the deadline they are giving the GM reasons for dismantling this team.

 

[Kin]

Sure but right now missing the playoffs isn't a fact, I think that will make a pretty big difference if it goes that way.

I'd think so too. But I'd also have thought that Wilson would have been fired several times by now so at this point I'm not inclined to think anything about how Brian Burke might handle his coaches by my usual standards of reason and logic. 

Burke recently said, given that scenario, that what he would do is none of anyone's business which to me gives a bit of insight to what might be an unpalatable decision on his part, I might be reading too much into that but Burke usually has a better answer when he thinks he's sure of something.

My point exactly. He's unsure. The Leafs could miss the Playoffs and this summer while speaking about how MLSE couldn't have possibly opened Real Sports Amusement Park and Moonshinery without the Brand Strength of the Toronto Maple Leafs Brian Burke may well praise Ron Wilson's excellent leadership in the year to come.

 

[Tigger]

Yup, and he might not. See I haven't been in the 'fire Wilson' clan up to now so for me it's a tipping point, can't say for sure what will happen but that's my guess for the moment.

 

[cw]

Keep getting used to him gang...

For all those asking, there is no chance that Brian Burke is even contemplating a change behind the bench.
by JSportsnet via twitter 11:05 AM

That doesn't surprise me in the least. Wilson is very likely going to finish the season.

I do think Wilson is right in that the trade rumours got to his club. It happened with the Lindros rumours in '01 and that club had a lot more veterans. That's the tough part playing for Burke - a player knows he likes to make trades. Add in the Toronto media and it's bound to get to some players.

That may well be true.  But if Wilson is offering it as an excuse, it is the lamest one I've ever heard.

Compare the usual trite responses when some key player gets hurt: "We can't use injuries as an excuse."  Now that has always struck me as utter nonsense; in fact, injuries are one of the few valid excuses for a sudden drop in results that there are.  Being unsettled by the prospect of being traded?  In a league where 95% or more of the players do not have a NTC?  Now that's lame.

I also didn't expect Wilson to be fired at this point -- Burke's in for a dime, in for a dollar.

I give it more weight than "the lamest one I've ever heard".

This is a young team. This is a team with a GM who they know loves to move bodies and seems to move bodies more than any other GM in the league. The is a team in the most intense media/rumour market in the NHL. When you put all that together, I'd be more surprised if it didn't have an effect.

How many employees are more productive when they know they're about to be fired? It's bound to affect some detrimentally and in this market, more likely to get to players than smaller hockey markets.

I don't think it's a blank cheque of excuses for Wilson but I give it some weight. And I bet they'll bounce back and play closer to their abilities after the deadline. We often talk about how this club seems to get going after the deadline when games "don't matter". I suspect this is a part of the reason for that. How committed can a player be to his team when he's hearing his name on the media chopping block daily? It's got to be hard some days to concentrate on the task at hand. Try to put yourself in their skates for a moment. They're still human beings.

 

[azzurri63]

Keep getting used to him gang...

For all those asking, there is no chance that Brian Burke is even contemplating a change behind the bench.
by JSportsnet via twitter 11:05 AM

That doesn't surprise me in the least. Wilson is very likely going to finish the season.

I do think Wilson is right in that the trade rumours got to his club. It happened with the Lindros rumours in '01 and that club had a lot more veterans. That's the tough part playing for Burke - a player knows he likes to make trades. Add in the Toronto media and it's bound to get to some players.

That may well be true.  But if Wilson is offering it as an excuse, it is the lamest one I've ever heard.

Compare the usual trite responses when some key player gets hurt: "We can't use injuries as an excuse."  Now that has always struck me as utter nonsense; in fact, injuries are one of the few valid excuses for a sudden drop in results that there are.  Being unsettled by the prospect of being traded?  In a league where 95% or more of the players do not have a NTC?  Now that's lame.

I also didn't expect Wilson to be fired at this point -- Burke's in for a dime, in for a dollar.

I give it more weight than "the lamest one I've ever heard".

This is a young team. This is a team with a GM who they know loves to move bodies and seems to move bodies more than any other GM in the league. The is a team in the most intense media/rumour market in the NHL. When you put all that together, I'd be more surprised if it didn't have an effect.

How many employees are more productive when they know they're about to be fired? It's bound to affect some detrimentally and in this market, more likely to get to players than smaller hockey markets.

I don't think it's a blank cheque of excuses for Wilson but I give it some weight. And I bet they'll bounce back and play closer to their abilities after the deadline. We often talk about how this club seems to get going after the deadline when games "don't matter". I suspect this is a part of the reason for that. How committed can a player be to his team when he's hearing his name on the media chopping block daily? It's got to be hard some days to concentrate on the task at hand. Try to put yourself in their skates for a moment. They're still human beings.

Sure they are human beings but they are athletes and well paid. Part of being an athlete comes the notion that at any given time you can be traded far as I'm concerned there shouldn't be any movement clauses etc. They get paid very well and if they aren't living to their billing why should a team be stuck with you. Finally there is a difference between being fired and traded. If I was was fired from my job I would be looking for something else and no income. Traded albeit sucks as far as a move for better or for worse but salary still comes in.

 

[ZBBM]

You make some good, nuanced points cw.  Of course they have feelings and I don't mean to diminish that.  But I am standing my ground.  These guys are human beings, but they are all (supposedly) professionals too.  And none of the players is in any danger of being "fired," just traded.  Even guys like Orr, Rosehill & Boyce, who were sort of "fired," are continuing their careers.

Like I said, when you sign on for a gig where trades are a big part of the package, the possibility of being traded is something you should deal with and just put in a little box off to the side.  On each and every night in the NHL, exactly half of the teams win.  And the same conditions apply to every team.  So if half your peers are winning games, and they are all subject being traded just like you are, then yes, it is the lamest excuse I've ever heard.

EDIT: I see Azzurri anticipated some of my points.

 

[proteus2000]

Also, it would surely mean Wilson is gone and that has to make some people a little bit happy or satisfied.

If Burke isn't even contemplating firing Wilson now, I don't know that I'm all that confident that Burke will fire Wilson even if the team misses the playoffs.

I mean, after the season is over you can ask "Who will we get who'll guarantee better results?" and "Do we know for sure what a coaching change will yield?" and get the exact same answers then as now.

A coaching change generally yields positive results. Look at Florida and Ottawa this season after a coaching change. St Louis has been fantastic, and the canes/ducks have played better from changes midseason.

Wilson has had enough time, his time as a successful coach is over. His best attribute is throwing players under the bus.

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=CA#/watch?v=_sdhJf4hBoQ

 

[Kin]

I also sort of wonder about the extent to which it would really impact a player. I mean, today's players can insulate themselves from that if they really want to. They're not fans, after all. They're not listening to sports talk radio or looking up internet rumours. Yeah, they might get asked questions in a media scrum but even then I think players in all markets would give the same answer of not paying attention to that stuff.

I don't know. Modern athletes seem pretty detached from that sort of stuff. I'm more inclined to believe that they're smart enough to know the situation the team's in and deduce from that that they could get dealt.

 

[Tigger]

I can see how it would mess with a young players head and the Leafs are pretty young. I don't think it's the lamest excuse, not a good one for pros but not the worst, so much of the game is between the ears.

 

[cw]

Keep getting used to him gang...

For all those asking, there is no chance that Brian Burke is even contemplating a change behind the bench.
by JSportsnet via twitter 11:05 AM

That doesn't surprise me in the least. Wilson is very likely going to finish the season.

I do think Wilson is right in that the trade rumours got to his club. It happened with the Lindros rumours in '01 and that club had a lot more veterans. That's the tough part playing for Burke - a player knows he likes to make trades. Add in the Toronto media and it's bound to get to some players.

That may well be true.  But if Wilson is offering it as an excuse, it is the lamest one I've ever heard.

Compare the usual trite responses when some key player gets hurt: "We can't use injuries as an excuse."  Now that has always struck me as utter nonsense; in fact, injuries are one of the few valid excuses for a sudden drop in results that there are.  Being unsettled by the prospect of being traded?  In a league where 95% or more of the players do not have a NTC?  Now that's lame.

I also didn't expect Wilson to be fired at this point -- Burke's in for a dime, in for a dollar.

I give it more weight than "the lamest one I've ever heard".

This is a young team. This is a team with a GM who they know loves to move bodies and seems to move bodies more than any other GM in the league. The is a team in the most intense media/rumour market in the NHL. When you put all that together, I'd be more surprised if it didn't have an effect.

How many employees are more productive when they know they're about to be fired? It's bound to affect some detrimentally and in this market, more likely to get to players than smaller hockey markets.

I don't think it's a blank cheque of excuses for Wilson but I give it some weight. And I bet they'll bounce back and play closer to their abilities after the deadline. We often talk about how this club seems to get going after the deadline when games "don't matter". I suspect this is a part of the reason for that. How committed can a player be to his team when he's hearing his name on the media chopping block daily? It's got to be hard some days to concentrate on the task at hand. Try to put yourself in their skates for a moment. They're still human beings.

Sure they are human beings but they are athletes and well paid. Part of being an athlete comes the notion that at any given time you can be traded far as I'm concerned there shouldn't be any movement clauses etc. They get paid very well and if they aren't living to their billing why should a team be stuck with you. Finally there is a difference between being fired and traded. If I was was fired from my job I would be looking for something else and no income. Traded albeit sucks as far as a move for better or for worse but salary still comes in.

Most of these guys are millionaires and they won't have to worry about money for the rest of their life. So the difference for them isn't money: it's things like pride/self esteem, etc.

If one made an offer to the general public that a given selected person could be paid a million dollars if they would accept being portrayed in the mainstream media as the biggest a-hole in the world, some folks wouldn't accept the money and would rather pass. No amount of money would be worth the public embarrassment to them.

Money isn't the issue for most hockey players because they're well paid. But some or most of them don't take kindly to the hit to their self esteem to be chucked off their hockey club and away from the friendships they've made. It's splashed across the front page of the sports section in most hockey markets that a given player got dumped for a 4th/5th/6th/7th round pick (close to peanuts - as that's a 'big maybe' asset).
Even Gretzky cried when he was traded. Jeff Carter didn't speak with the media for a few days after he got dealt to Columbus - and may never have completely accepted that trade - in spite of being paid $5+ mil for the rest of his hockey career guaranteed.

They're human with egos. Potential stuff like this is bound to bug some of them and their uprooted family quite a bit.

 

[Deebo]

I don't get it though, when they're in game, are they actually thinking about the trade deadline and it's causing them to make sloppy passes, let in weak goals, constantly give the puck away and blow defensive assignments?

Even at the extremely low level I play hockey at, I'm never thinking about anything but the game no matter what other stuff is going on in my life.

 

[cw]

I don't get it though, when they're in game, are they actually thinking about the trade deadline and it's causing them to make sloppy passes, let in weak goals, constantly give the puck away and blow defensive assignments?

Even at the extremely low level I play hockey at, I'm never thinking about anything but the game no matter what other stuff is going on in my life.

I don't think it happens quite that way.

In the team meeting looking at the game video, their minds may be elsewhere - not completely locked into the discussion for example.

On the ice, it's strikes me more as a sports psychology issue. They're not in the ideal mental zone to perform optimally. See Dr Rotella and his golf psychology stuff. A little hesitation or slight mindlessness in a quick game like hockey and the opponent is good enough to take advantage.

We've seen time and time again great Canadian hockey teams beat better skilled hockey teams with emotion. It's a sport where the emotion of a team can elevate it to perform better than the sum of it's parts. If players on a bench are going into that game wondering if it's the last time they'll play in a Leafs jersey, it's kind of tough for that group to hit the emotional high needed to tap into that "bigger than the sum of it's parts" performance. It's closer to a deer in the headlights mentality for some of the players in those circumstances.

I can't imagine how that helps them perform their best.

 

[azzurri63]

Just had a long post ready to submit and had unkowingly logged out and lost it all. Anyone else log out on this site now. Don't recall that happening on the old site. Anyway here's my Sunday vent. I'll try and keep it short. When Burke got hired I was elated finally a GM with some balls and smarts and lead us in the right direction. You all know my hatred for Ron and his friendship with Burke that is killing this organization but we will touch on that later. As far as trades and restocking the cupboard I think Burke has done great. We can debate the Kessel deal again but I thought it was a good move at the time. Kessel for a 1st and 2nd. Don't count the other first as Phil was one himself and don't forget at the time was rated as high as number 1. Did Burke figure we would stink and finish 29th. Don't think so. Neither did I. If the first was a mid round or late pick we wouldn't be talking about the deal still. Where I think Burke has failed is his free agent signings. Beauch, Komi, Armstrong and Connolly all fails and at a high price. Desperation moves to fill some holes. The other mistake I think he made was his assessment of Reimer. Goaltending has looked bad the last month or so and part of that I blame on Gus and James but the problem lies further than that. But why did Burke commit to James for 3 years albeit at a good price after only half a season. Too quick to offer him the #1. Finally what irks me is why Ron is still here and you know I have harped on this for a long time. Wilson should have been let go a long time ago. He's a .500 coach at best and this may be the 10th season his team will miss the playoffs out of 18. How in the he** did he get an extension. Like someone posted on another thread or in this one maybe just Burke padding his buddy's pocket. It's Bu****it. The friendship between the two and Burke's stubbornness to get rid of him is killing us which brings me to this. Maybe we should be starting another thread and label it The Unofficial Fire Ron Wilson/Burke thread.

 

[DieWilsonDie]

Just had a long post ready to submit and had unkowingly logged out and lost it all. Anyone else log out on this site now. Don't recall that happening on the old site. Anyway here's my Sunday vent. I'll try and keep it short. When Burke got hired I was elated finally a GM with some balls and smarts and lead us in the right direction. You all know my hatred for Ron and his friendship with Burke that is killing this organization but we will touch on that later. As far as trades and restocking the cupboard I think Burke has done great. We can debate the Kessel deal again but I thought it was a good move at the time. Kessel for a 1st and 2nd. Don't count the other first as Phil was one himself and don't forget at the time was rated as high as number 1. Did Burke figure we would stink and finish 29th. Don't think so. Neither did I. If the first was a mid round or late pick we wouldn't be talking about the deal still. Where I think Burke has failed is his free agent signings. Beauch, Komi, Armstrong and Connolly all fails and at a high price. Desperation moves to fill some holes. The other mistake I think he made was his assessment of Reimer. Goaltending has looked bad the last month or so and part of that I blame on Gus and James but the problem lies further than that. But why did Burke commit to James for 3 years albeit at a good price after only half a season. Too quick to offer him the #1. Finally what irks me is why Ron is still here and you know I have harped on this for a long time. Wilson should have been let go a long time ago. He's a .500 coach at best and this may be the 10th season his team will miss the playoffs out of 18. How in the he** did he get an extension. Like someone posted on another thread or in this one maybe just Burke padding his buddy's pocket. It's Bu****it. The friendship between the two and Burke's stubbornness to get rid of him is killing us which brings me to this. Maybe we should be starting another thread and label it The Unofficial Fire Ron Wilson/Burke thread.

I think our goalie situation has been completely mishandled by Wilson almost exclusively.  Gustvasson should have been named the undisputed number 1 goalie in January when he was in a grove.  Jonas seems to be the type of goalie that plays great when he gets a lot of work, unfortunately Wilson was seduced by Reimer's performances against Pittsburgh and Ottawa, where the opposition shots mostly came from the perimeter. 

 

[TML fan]

I really have to question the mental fortitude of a goaltender who can't sit out 3 games without losing his focus. Not #1 material.

 

[bustaheims]

Real_ESPNLeBrun: Regarding calls for Ron Wilson's head in TO, just chatted with Leafs GM Brian Burke. ``I?m not contemplating a coaching change,?? Burke said