TRADE DAY: Sandin / Engvall / Schenn

[CarltonTheBear]

I'm not sure I'm on board with the roster changing THIS much.  Keefe is going to have his hands full figuring it all out.

I'll give you this, I didn't like a 1st round loss should cost Dubas his job before. But if THIS completely blows up in his face that might be another story.

I don?t know this is mostly shuffling the deck chairs on the bottom 6/bottom pair and recouping picks.

I feel like more names might be added to the thread title soon. Trading Schenn to have him be the #7 defencemen doesn't really make much sense to me, and I can't see them sitting Liljegren.

Holl and Kerfoot are probably pretty nervous right now.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I'm not sure I'm on board with the roster changing THIS much.  Keefe is going to have his hands full figuring it all out.

Why. He moved out 2 guys that have ahard time with the heavy game.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

So right now we have

Rielly - Brodie
McCabe - Liljegren
Giordano - Holl
Gutafsson
Schenn
Timmins

What the hell else are we doing??????

There's nothing in the rulebook that says you CAN'T play with 9 defencemen.

 

[Redleaf]

I'm not sure I'm on board with the roster changing THIS much.  Keefe is going to have his hands full figuring it all out.

I'll give you this, I didn't like a 1st round loss should cost Dubas his job before. But if THIS completely blows up in his face that might be another story.

See. I see this from the opposite viewpoint. Im guessing Dubas is thinking, if I?m let go no matter how well I?ve done as GM to date if we lose another first round, I need to go all in here. Self preservation.

 

[Champ Kind]

I'm not sure I'm on board with the roster changing THIS much.  Keefe is going to have his hands full figuring it all out.

I'll give you this, I didn't like a 1st round loss should cost Dubas his job before. But if THIS completely blows up in his face that might be another story.

See. I see this from the opposite viewpoint. Im guessing Dubas is thinking, if I?m let go no matter how well I?ve done as GM to date if we lose another first round, I need to go all in here. Self preservation.

Respectfully, I disagree.  Maybe I'm drinking the Kool-Aid, but I believe Dubas when he says this isn't about him.  This is about giving this group - Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares and Reilly - the best chance at playoff success.  Time is fleeting, the core is at their peak, and realistically there's this year and probably next and then major changes will be needed.  The time is now and Dubas is supporting the team as best as humanely possible. 

 

[ZBBM]

I'm not sure I'm on board with the roster changing THIS much.  Keefe is going to have his hands full figuring it all out.

Why. He moved out 2 guys that have ahard time with the heavy game.

Sandin is a big loss.  As I said earlier, we'll be rueing this like we did Stralman.  Engvall's return is an irritant to me, but I don't have a problem moving him, even though I like parts of his game.

And my point is that rejiggering the chemistry will be a big challenge for the coaches.

 

[ZBBM]

I'm not sure I'm on board with the roster changing THIS much.  Keefe is going to have his hands full figuring it all out.

I'll give you this, I didn't like a 1st round loss should cost Dubas his job before. But if THIS completely blows up in his face that might be another story.

See. I see this from the opposite viewpoint. Im guessing Dubas is thinking, if I?m let go no matter how well I?ve done as GM to date if we lose another first round, I need to go all in here. Self preservation.

I think we are actually agreeing.

 

[Redleaf]

I'm not sure I'm on board with the roster changing THIS much.  Keefe is going to have his hands full figuring it all out.

I'll give you this, I didn't like a 1st round loss should cost Dubas his job before. But if THIS completely blows up in his face that might be another story.

See. I see this from the opposite viewpoint. Im guessing Dubas is thinking, if I?m let go no matter how well I?ve done as GM to date if we lose another first round, I need to go all in here. Self preservation.

Respectfully, I disagree.  Maybe I'm drinking the Kool-Aid, but I believe Dubas when he says this isn't about him.  This is about giving this group - Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares and Reilly - the best chance at playoff success.  Time is fleeting, the core is at their peak, and realistically there's this year and probably next and then major changes will be needed.  The time is now and Dubas is supporting the team as best as humanely possible. 

Both thoughts can be mutually inclusive.

 

[Bender]

I'm not sure I'm on board with the roster changing THIS much.  Keefe is going to have his hands full figuring it all out.

Why. He moved out 2 guys that have ahard time with the heavy game.

Sandin is a big loss.  As I said earlier, we'll be rueing this like we did Stralman.  Engvall's return is an irritant to me, but I don't have a problem moving him, even though I like parts of his game.

And my point is that rejiggering the chemistry will be a big challenge for the coaches.

Sandin is a loss, but hardly a "big" one. I'll eat my words if he becomes Stralman 2.0 but I really don't see it. And even so I do think adding McCabe and removing Sandin makes you a better team to win now.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I'm not sure I'm on board with the roster changing THIS much.  Keefe is going to have his hands full figuring it all out.

I'll give you this, I didn't like a 1st round loss should cost Dubas his job before. But if THIS completely blows up in his face that might be another story.

See. I see this from the opposite viewpoint. Im guessing Dubas is thinking, if I?m let go no matter how well I?ve done as GM to date if we lose another first round, I need to go all in here. Self preservation.

Respectfully, I disagree.  Maybe I'm drinking the Kool-Aid, but I believe Dubas when he says this isn't about him.  This is about giving this group - Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares and Reilly - the best chance at playoff success.  Time is fleeting, the core is at their peak, and realistically there's this year and probably next and then major changes will be needed.  The time is now and Dubas is supporting the team as best as humanely possible. 

I agree. I think this is a message to the players. I'm going to surround you with players to help you win. This is a big deal to the players.

 

[L K]

I'm not sure I'm on board with the roster changing THIS much.  Keefe is going to have his hands full figuring it all out.

I'll give you this, I didn't like a 1st round loss should cost Dubas his job before. But if THIS completely blows up in his face that might be another story.

See. I see this from the opposite viewpoint. Im guessing Dubas is thinking, if I?m let go no matter how well I?ve done as GM to date if we lose another first round, I need to go all in here. Self preservation.

I think we are actually agreeing.

I'll chime in to disagree.  I think if Dubas was making moves for self preservation he would have migrated away from the core to really change things up.  I think he truly believes in this group and much in the same way that he keeps trading away guys who don't fit on the roster to get a better opportunity, I think he is only making moves he thinks are making the team better. 

 

[Bender]

Found this on Reddit and had to share

 

[herman]

Similar to the Sandin/Dermott Trade, Engvall?s move is just pulling the chute early rather than too late with a heavier price tag (a la Johnsson).

Dubas is also sending them to places they will get more opportunity.

 

[ZBBM]

I'm not sure I'm on board with the roster changing THIS much.  Keefe is going to have his hands full figuring it all out.

Why. He moved out 2 guys that have ahard time with the heavy game.

Sandin is a big loss.  As I said earlier, we'll be rueing this like we did Stralman.  Engvall's return is an irritant to me, but I don't have a problem moving him, even though I like parts of his game.

And my point is that rejiggering the chemistry will be a big challenge for the coaches.

Sandin is a loss, but hardly a "big" one. I'll eat my words if he becomes Stralman 2.0 but I really don't see it. And even so I do think adding McCabe and removing Sandin makes you a better team to win now.

We disagree on Sandin's value, but in any case there was no need for him to be moved now.  Just yesterday when they got McCabe the talk was, oh, a late first rounder isn't as valuable as you might think.  OK, then, now that Dubas has recouped that perhaps the same logic should be applied.  And so that leaves you with Gustafsson, whose career's been all over the map and is a UFA.  I've just been told that guys like him a worth no more than a 3rd or 4th rounder.  So by that logic Dubas traded a promising young starting D for a very middling return.

 

[Bender]

I'm not sure I'm on board with the roster changing THIS much.  Keefe is going to have his hands full figuring it all out.

I'll give you this, I didn't like a 1st round loss should cost Dubas his job before. But if THIS completely blows up in his face that might be another story.

See. I see this from the opposite viewpoint. Im guessing Dubas is thinking, if I?m let go no matter how well I?ve done as GM to date if we lose another first round, I need to go all in here. Self preservation.

I think we are actually agreeing.

I'll chime in to disagree.  I think if Dubas was making moves for self preservation he would have migrated away from the core to really change things up.  I think he truly believes in this group and much in the same way that he keeps trading away guys who don't fit on the roster to get a better opportunity, I think he is only making moves he thinks are making the team better. 

I mean, if self preservation is taking a run as hard as possible this year (and next as the core is still locked and we have some new players under contract) then it can also be true that he is doing what's best for him but also the team. Let's go for it. If it blows up oh well, but I don't want to look back and say we weren't aggressive enough at the deadline again.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/markhmasters/status/1630686235181166593

 

[Bender]

I'm not sure I'm on board with the roster changing THIS much.  Keefe is going to have his hands full figuring it all out.

Why. He moved out 2 guys that have ahard time with the heavy game.

Sandin is a big loss.  As I said earlier, we'll be rueing this like we did Stralman.  Engvall's return is an irritant to me, but I don't have a problem moving him, even though I like parts of his game.

And my point is that rejiggering the chemistry will be a big challenge for the coaches.

Sandin is a loss, but hardly a "big" one. I'll eat my words if he becomes Stralman 2.0 but I really don't see it. And even so I do think adding McCabe and removing Sandin makes you a better team to win now.

We disagree on Sandin's value, but in any case there was no need for him to be moved now.  Just yesterday when they got McCabe the talk was, oh, a late first rounder isn't as valuable as you might think.  OK, then, now that Dubas has recouped that perhaps the same logic should be applied.  And so that leaves you with Gustafsson, whose career's been all over the map and is a UFA.  I've just been told that guys like him a worth no more than a 3rd or 4th rounder.  So by that logic Dubas traded a promising young starting D for a very middling return.

That's your read on things, which is fine. But we did need shed salary and it was going to come from somewhere. I also don't think Dubas is done yet.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I'm not sure I'm on board with the roster changing THIS much.  Keefe is going to have his hands full figuring it all out.

Why. He moved out 2 guys that have ahard time with the heavy game.

Sandin is a big loss.  As I said earlier, we'll be rueing this like we did Stralman.  Engvall's return is an irritant to me, but I don't have a problem moving him, even though I like parts of his game.

And my point is that rejiggering the chemistry will be a big challenge for the coaches.

Sandin is a loss, but hardly a "big" one. I'll eat my words if he becomes Stralman 2.0 but I really don't see it. And even so I do think adding McCabe and removing Sandin makes you a better team to win now.

Agree. Sandin isn't starting in the top 6 come playoff time with the acquisition of McCabe. He's behind, Gio, Rielly, McCabe on the left side. His biggest issue is playing against heavy players. I'd be a lot more upset if it was Liljegren who I think has progressed much better. I also don't see a big issue with chemistry. The Leafs have moved out 2 roster players. That's it. The others out were bottom 6 from the Marlies.

 

[cw]

Some of this doesn't make sense to me yet.

To me, as I posted before, Engvall or Kerfoot was a given to get under the cap when Murray returns.
Getting a 3rd for Engvall seems like fair value.

That trade was a necessity in the wake of the others.
That alone made room for Murray's return off LTIR and signing Knies.
I'm ok to this point.

Gustafsson? A knock on the Leafs D might be that they lack scoring. I believe it looks worse than it is because they've been using a 4th forward on the PP. So he wanted a more offensive dman? He got one but I doubt he is as good defensively. And I don't like the return given where they are right now - a window of this year and next to win a Cup with this group. Next year Gustavsson is gone or UFA expensive. Sandin made good progress this year and would likely have been better next year. I don't care for this deal. Not something I would have done. Take them years to develop the pick unless they flip that pick.

Schenn. Depth? ok But where are all these dmen going to play. We have 9 on the roster and Benn in the AHL? Another trade coming?

We have a top 4 NHL team with significant turnover. Whatever team chemistry they had, it has been rattled. A lot of these guys are friends with each other. He's removed Anderson, Benn, Engvall & Sandin and added Schenn, Gustavsson, O'Reilly, McCabe, Acciari & Lafferty - 6 players with Knies as a potential 7th. Offhand, I can't recall seeing anything quite like that just prior to the trade deadline.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/markhmasters/status/1630668577727455233

Kerfoot slides up with Engvall?s exit