Trade Deadline

[cabber24]

If the price to land a top pairing/legit #1 defenseman (and not just a rental) includes Kapanen, then you have to seriously consider it. But if you can get away with trading our first rounder this year and keeping Kapanen, I think you have to do that. It probably means you think the team is capable of competing for the Cup in the next 1-3 years, and Kapanen will be more valuable to the team during that period than the draft pick will be. What if Nylander or Marner goes down with a long term injury...Kapanen could possibly step into one of those spots right away. I'm not sure anyone else in the system, including Johnsson, has the skillset Kapanen possesses.

I can't even fathom a way to improve this D-core internally. I am starting to believe a trade may be required to take this team to the next level. In no way are we going to like what we will have to give up but if it got us at top 2 D man we will a much better team.

What's a realistic ask for Karlsson?  (Kappi, Brown, 1st, and Johnsson) that's probably not enough they will likely require Marner or Nylander or Liljegren.

 

[rdowdall]

If the price to land a top pairing/legit #1 defenseman (and not just a rental) includes Kapanen, then you have to seriously consider it. But if you can get away with trading our first rounder this year and keeping Kapanen, I think you have to do that. It probably means you think the team is capable of competing for the Cup in the next 1-3 years, and Kapanen will be more valuable to the team during that period than the draft pick will be. What if Nylander or Marner goes down with a long term injury...Kapanen could possibly step into one of those spots right away. I'm not sure anyone else in the system, including Johnsson, has the skillset Kapanen possesses.

I can't even fathom a way to improve this D-core internally. I am starting to believe a trade may be required to take this team to the next level. In no way are we going to like what we will have to give up but if it got us at top 2 D man we will a much better team.

What's a realistic ask for Karlsson?  Kappi, Brown, 1st, and Johnsson

I think you are undervaluing Karlsson there.  They want 6 or seven pieces for him.

 

[Kin]

If the price to land a top pairing/legit #1 defenseman (and not just a rental) includes Kapanen, then you have to seriously consider it. But if you can get away with trading our first rounder this year and keeping Kapanen, I think you have to do that. It probably means you think the team is capable of competing for the Cup in the next 1-3 years, and Kapanen will be more valuable to the team during that period than the draft pick will be. What if Nylander or Marner goes down with a long term injury...Kapanen could possibly step into one of those spots right away. I'm not sure anyone else in the system, including Johnsson, has the skillset Kapanen possesses.

I can't even fathom a way to improve this D-core internally. I am starting to believe a trade may be required to take this team to the next level. In no way are we going to like what we will have to give up but if it got us at top 2 D man we will a much better team.

What's a realistic ask for Karlsson?  Kappi, Brown, 1st, and Johnsson

Ottawa won't trade him here. If they would there's no chance in any universe it wouldn't involve 2 of Nylander, Marner and Liljegren.

 

[Coco-puffs]

It's a bit easier to swallow but I really don't know if McDonagh is the answer. How likely are we to win a cup with McDonagh on the roster in the next 2 years? You add McDonagh now and it limits your ability to plug holes elsewhere in the lineup, especially once Bozak & JVR leave for nothing.

It's way, way easier to replace JVR and Bozak than it is to acquire a comparable defenseman.

Agreed.  I have no problem with trading a Kapanen or a Johnsson plus a first and a depth d (ie Borgman or Carrick) to acquire McDonagh.  We'd have the strongest blueline we'd have had in many many years for the next 1.5 seasons (McDonagh-Rielly, Gardiner-Zaitsev, Dermott-Hainsey) and have cap space left to fill the bottom 6 slots left open. 

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Johnsson-?-Brown
?-?-Leivo

Really, the main concern I'd have there is finding a decent centerman.  Looking at the available free agents, its Tavares, Stastny, Jumbo Joe and then Bozak might actually be the next best option.

 

[ZBBM]

I agree with Bender.  I think it was busta who said somewhere that minor tinkering (in terms of additions; I still would not be averse to dealing any of the UFAs at the deadline) if anything is what we should be doing at this point.  Not really a contender yet, though we could just possibly go deep this year if absolutely everything falls into place like it did for OTT last year.  Next year at this time is when some critical decisions will need to be made; if all goes well the window really opens then.

McDonagh is a little different in my mind, though. I see that as a move that's more about next year than these playoffs.

Perhaps, but unless you think he is THE solution to our blueline deficits, rather than just the best available guy right now, I think you hold off.  We don't know what we have in Liljegren, for example.  Things might look quite different next year at this team.

To me, we are in a good place going into the playoffs this year.  No pundit really thinks we are a serious contender, yet there is some chance we could catch lightning in a bottle.  Next year will be a different story.  And admittedly, we will need to move to a "win soon" mode pretty quickly to take advantage of a goalie that appears to be entering his prime.  Andersen's "window" is the one that matters most of all.

 

[ZBBM]

I agree with Bender.  I think it was busta who said somewhere that minor tinkering (in terms of additions; I still would not be averse to dealing any of the UFAs at the deadline) if anything is what we should be doing at this point.  Not really a contender yet, though we could just possibly go deep this year if absolutely everything falls into place like it did for OTT last year.  Next year at this time is when some critical decisions will need to be made; if all goes well the window really opens then.

McDonagh is a good enough player that you can't really bank on there being a similar opportunity to acquire him when it's most convenient for the Leafs. That isn't to say they should abandon all prudence but we shouldn't treat it like they can just have a top pairing delivered in 30 minutes or he's free.

And that's not what I'm expecting either, but your point well taken.  As I said, the landscape may be different next year depending on how Liljegren does.

 

[Kin]

And that's not what I'm expecting either, but your point well taken.  As I said, the landscape may be different next year depending on how Liljegren does.

I think odds are pretty long that a 19 year old Liljegren makes a big impact next year.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Perhaps, but unless you think he is THE solution to our blueline deficits, rather than just the best available guy right now, I think you hold off.  We don't know what we have in Liljegren, for example.  Things might look quite different next year at this team.

To me, Liljegren's eventual emergence will allow you to trade Zaitsev eventually (but probably not as early as next year). He still doesn't solve the problem that we need another guy who can handle the top assignments alongside Rielly. We have nobody in our organization who can do that. As some point it's something that we're going to have to bring in, and it should happen sooner rather than later.

 

[ZBBM]

And that's not what I'm expecting either, but your point well taken.  As I said, the landscape may be different next year depending on how Liljegren does.

I think odds are pretty long that a 19 year old Liljegren makes a big impact next year.

Maybe, maybe not.  Rielly did at that age.  By this time next year I think the Leafs should have a pretty good projection on what he's likely to be.

 

[ZBBM]

Perhaps, but unless you think he is THE solution to our blueline deficits, rather than just the best available guy right now, I think you hold off.  We don't know what we have in Liljegren, for example.  Things might look quite different next year at this team.

To me, Liljegren's eventual emergence will allow you to trade Zaitsev eventually (but probably not as early as next year). He still doesn't solve the problem that we need another guy who can handle the top assignments alongside Rielly. We have nobody in our organization who can do that. As some point it's something that we're going to have to bring in, and it should happen sooner rather than later.

Opportunity costs.

Like I said, this is a good year to stand pretty pat for us.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Like I said, this is a good year to stand pretty pat for us.

I really don't get this. You said yourself that "next year will be a different story" and "we will need to move to a "win soon" mode pretty quickly". If a 'McDonagh' type defenceman with 1.5 years left on his contract became available next year at this time would you feel comfortable making a move for him then? Why pass at an opportunity right now that would give us a better chance to win this year, next year, and beyond?

And I don't think it's completely unreasonable to suggest that we actually have a better chance to win the Cup this season than we do next season. Nobody really saw Andersen having a Vezina-like year. It's entirely possible that he takes a small step back next season. Plus the whole losing JVR and Bozak thing is going to hurt our depth one way or another.

 

[Kin]

Maybe, maybe not.  Rielly did at that age.

Well A) Rielly was a top 5 pick and B) that "big impact" was scoring 27 points as a sheltered #6 defenseman on a bad team.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Well A) Rielly was a top 5 pick and B) that "big impact" was scoring 27 points as a sheltered #6 defenseman on a bad team.

Yeah if we're using Rielly as the template for when Liljegren can be reliable upon to be a capable top pairing defenceman who plays against the other teams top opposition then Timmy is still 4 years away. That's 4 years of Matthews/Nylander/Marner's prime.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Well A) Rielly was a top 5 pick and B) that "big impact" was scoring 27 points as a sheltered #6 defenseman on a bad team.

Yeah if we're using Rielly as the template for when Liljegren can be reliable upon to be a capable top pairing defenceman who plays against the other teams top opposition then Timmy is still 4 years away. That's 4 years of Matthews/Nylander/Marner's prime.

Some of the better defensemen are able to capably handle that role prior to when Morgan finally managed that.  I don't doubt that being on a bad team for the first few years hurt his development.  But even still, we are talking about AT LEAST 1 more year until Liljegren is likely ready for a 2nd pair role and if everything pans out a 1st pair role the year after that.  At best.  That is as blue-tinted as my glasses can get.

 

[Kin]

The only defensemen to have big impacts in their draft+2 years or earlier in the last, oh, 15 years that come to mind are Doughty and Ekblad.

 

[Coco-puffs]

The only defensemen to have big impacts in their draft+2 years or earlier in the last, oh, 15 years that come to mind are Doughty and Ekblad.

Werenski

 

[Kin]

Werenski

Fair goes.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Werenski

Fair goes.

Yeah, he immediately came to mind but you are right- not many others have managed great feats by their age 20 season. 

link

Interesting the number of guys on that list who haven't exactly had stellar careers either.

 

[ZBBM]

Like I said, this is a good year to stand pretty pat for us.

I really don't get this. You said yourself that "next year will be a different story" and "we will need to move to a "win soon" mode pretty quickly". If a 'McDonagh' type defenceman with 1.5 years left on his contract became available next year at this time would you feel comfortable making a move for him then? Why pass at an opportunity right now that would give us a better chance to win this year, next year, and beyond?

And I don't think it's completely unreasonable to suggest that we actually have a better chance to win the Cup this season than we do next season. Nobody really saw Andersen having a Vezina-like year. It's entirely possible that he takes a small step back next season. Plus the whole losing JVR and Bozak thing is going to hurt our depth one way or another.

Would anybody even being talking about McDonagh as the "solution" if he weren't available?  I don't think so.

 

[ZBBM]

Werenski

Fair goes.

Jones?