Unofficial 2013-2014 Armchair GM Thread

[Kin]

Nik, as usual, your logic makes argument difficult.  However, I have have 'first-round pick for a goalie' fatigiue and am irrationally suggesting I don't want any part of more.

That's fair. What I suppose I would say to that though is that what separates this from the Toskala trade to my mind is knowing where the pick is before trading it and its value not ultimately being tied to the performance of said goalie. Well, that and having a GM who deserves a little bit more of the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Corn Flake]

Avs 99.9% chance to draft McKinnon.  They will now have quite the surplus of centres. 

Line up to make offers on Stastny, O'Rielly and/or Duchene.

 

[bustaheims]

Avs 99.9% chance to draft McKinnon.  They will now have quite the surplus of centres. 

Line up to make offers on Stastny, O'Rielly and/or Duchene.

O'Reilly can't be traded until March. And, I'd say there's a good chance they start MacKinnon on the wing.

 

[Jalili]

I think the Avs move Stastny this summer.

 

[Bonsixx]

From fantasy sports site RotoWorld.com:

According to Rob Rossi of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, it looks like the Penguins are willing to deal Kris Letang if his contract demands don't soften.
If he agrees to taking an annual salary of around $6 million with a limited-movement clause then it's reasonable to believe that he will stay in Pittsburgh. However, it is being speculated that Letang is seeking around $7 million per season and a no-movement clause, which could land him elsewhere. It didn't take Penguins GM Ray Shero long to deal Jordan Staal after he rejected the club's 10-year contract and Letang might receive similar treatment. Pittsburgh also has a handful of blueline prospects who aren't far away from being NHLers, so that could soften the blow of losing Letang. Trade talks for Letang could heat up a the general managers' meeting on Wednesday.

Let the bidding begin...?

 

[hockeyfan1]

Re: Bernier

ESPN.com's Pierre LeBrun reports five teams still have a "serious interest" in Bernier -- including the Philadelphia Flyers, Toronto Maple Leafs, and New York Islanders.

Meanwhile Sportsnet's Nick Kypreos insists the Flyers and Maple Leafs are frontrunners for Bernier. As for the other two teams believed to be on the list, the Edmonton Oilers and Florida Panthers aren't in the best of shape, goaltending-wise.

 

[bustaheims]

The rumoured asking price for Bernier is Frattin and a pick/prospect. With the way his goal scoring vanished after he had knee surgery, Frattin's value isn't high as it was when this exact same rumour appeared in January, but, I'm still not sure I do it - not until I know what Bernier's contract demands are like, etc. If that's the route the Leafs go down, it's workable and not the end of the world, but, it's not a deal I make.

 

[Kin]

The rumoured asking price for Bernier is Frattin and a pick/prospect. With the way his goal scoring vanished after he had knee surgery, Frattin's value isn't high as it was when this exact same rumour appeared in January, but, I'm still not sure I do it - not until I know what Bernier's contract demands are like, etc. If that's the route the Leafs go down, it's workable and not the end of the world, but, it's not a deal I make.

Even factoring in what you could potentially get for Scrivens?

 

[bustaheims]

Even factoring in what you could potentially get for Scrivens?

Well, I'm not sure the Leafs would get back more than a 3rd round pick or so for him (which probably cancels out the prospect/pick in the potential Bernier deal), so, yeah, even when factoring that in, I'd be hesitant to make that deal. I'd say the value difference between the Leafs having Reimer/Scrivens in comparison to Reimer/Bernier is less than the value of Frattin, though not drastically so.

 

[Kin]

Even factoring in what you could potentially get for Scrivens?

Well, I'm not sure the Leafs would get back more than a 3rd round pick or so for him (which probably cancels out the prospect/pick in the potential Bernier deal), so, yeah, even when factoring that in, I'd be hesitant to make that deal. I'd say the value difference between the Leafs having Reimer/Scrivens in comparison to Reimer/Bernier is less than the value of Frattin, though not drastically so.

Fair enough. Like I said above I'm not really for it or against it simply because I can't claim to have seen a ton of Bernier actually playing.

 

[bustaheims]

Fair enough. Like I said above I'm not really for it or against it simply because I can't claim to have seen a ton of Bernier actually playing.

I haven't seen a ton, either, but enough for me to question whether he'd provide much more than Scrivens. His numbers this year were a little better, but with less ice time and facing more than 7 shots less per 60. My guess is, behind the same defence, the results of their performances wouldn't be drastically different.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

http://theleafsnation.com/2013/6/18/jonathan-bernier-on-the-maple-leafs-makes-no-sense

 

[Kin]

http://theleafsnation.com/2013/6/18/jonathan-bernier-on-the-maple-leafs-makes-no-sense

But, I mean, people understand that the idea behind adding Bernier isn't sending Reimer to the bench, right? It's that goaltending tends to be an inconsistent position in the new NHL and you want to be as strong as possible at the position at all times.

I mean, look at the two teams in the finals. One of them had a phenomenal season splitting the goaltending duties almost evenly between two goalies, neither of whom was on the team when they won their cup only three years ago and the other is being backstopped by a goalie who wasn't their starter when they won the cup two years ago and is really only starting now because their goalie unexpectedly retired to start a militia. I mean, even if you've got a Vezina winner which Reimer isn't you want the back-up to be as good and as capable of being the guy himself as possible.

 

[oakl0008]

If a backup goalie was just as good as the starting goalie, then he wouldn't be a backup goalie.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I'm not sold on the asset cost, I don't see him as a massive upgrade on Scrivens let alone Reimer, so I'd give it a miss.

I also think, at least in part, it's worth considering what it would do to the psyche of the existing duo, you could be left with a bust in Bernier and Reimer who has had the rug ripped out from under him after finally looking like a quality starter.

 

[Kin]

I'm not sold on the asset cost, I don't see him as a massive upgrade on Scrivens let alone Reimer, so I'd give it a miss.

Which is a fair position to take but it's a far cry from "adding Bernier makes no sense".

 

[Kin]

If a backup goalie was just as good as the starting goalie, then he wouldn't be a backup goalie.

I don't know if that's addressed to me but if so A) I said you want the backup goalie to be as good as possible and B) it doesn't even really work anyway. A team can have two goalies of equal skill and just play one more than the other.

 

[oakl0008]

Reimer has defied so many expectations while overcoming so many odds over his career and this year, while some may not agree, he has proven himself as a #1 starter. He's young and can improve on his current shortcomings if he keeps on his current path. He's stolen games for this team while remaining accountable for games that haven't went well for him. He always willingly made himself available to the press and always put his teammates first without complaint, which is more than I can say for 1 or 2 other players. He's humble and a true professional, so to have the Scrivens/Reimer tandem upset for someone unproven (unless he is some magical second-coming of Patrick Roy whom we are unaware) is pointless. There are other areas on this team (like solidifying the defense and acquiring a #1 center) that need much more attention than the goalie non-situation, whether some may think so or not.

Quote by Nik The Trik

I don't know if that's addressed to me but if so A) I said you want the backup goalie to be as good as possible..

I mean, even if you've got a Vezina winner which Reimer isn't you want the back-up to be as good and as capable of being the guy himself as possible.

No, you didn't. You're backtracking.

B) it doesn't even really work anyway. A team can have two goalies of equal skill and just play one more than the other.

Again. If a backup goalie was completely equal in skill to their starting goalie, they are not going to settle for being the backup goalie unless they were just drafted and needed time to settle into the NHL before being thrown to the wolves.

I repeat, there are higher priorities on this team that need to be addressed.

 

[Kin]

No, you didn't.

No, I did. I can't pretend I wrote it as well as I'd like but if you remove the second "as" from the line you quoted it reads clearer and says that pretty plainly. You want your backup goalie to be as good as possible and as capable of being a starter as possible should an injury occur.

Again. If a backup goalie was completely equal in skill to their starting goalie, they are not going to settle for being the backup goalie unless they were just drafted and needed time to settle into the NHL before being thrown to the wolves.

Well, now you're backtracking. You said that a goalie that was equal in skill wouldn't be a backupn ot that they wouldn't settle for being a backup. But as we can see from a situation like Vancouver, there are a lot of situations where who the backup is and whether or not they "settle" on the situation is beyond their control.

I repeat, there are higher priorities on this team that need to be addressed.

But that's a bit of a strawman. Nobody is saying it is or should be a top priority and, maybe more to the point, I think it gives a mistaken impression of how capable NHL general managers are. That Nonis might be pursuing a trade for Bernier doesn't mean that he isn't fully capable of doing what he can to address other areas at the same time. You mention a #1 center as being a top priority but nothing about this trade would preclude adding one if they were available and that's a big if. What we've seen from the last few years is that #1 center's are very hard to acquire but it would be pretty foolish on Nonis' part if he didn't improve the team where he could because he was saving all of the bullets in his gun for a chance to add a #1 center that might not appear.

 

[oakl0008]

Even aside from the elusive #1C, there's issues with defense and maybe even a winger since it isn't certain that Phil Kessel will be with the team after 2014. Either way, unless Bernier is the second coming of Roy or even Brodeur or Rask (gulp), the goalie situation is the last thing that should be tampered with after Reimer proved himself the way he did this year. He has a groove going and the perfect attitude to go along with it. To mess with the best thing going for the Leafs right now for someone unproven when there are a number of more important things to address is pointless.