Wild @ Leafs - Nov. 8th, 7:30pm - SN, TSN 1050
- Thread starter CarltonTheBear
- Start date
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
Big win from Andersen.
bustaheims
Active member
Leafs win game they probably had no business winning. Andersen the biggest reason, for sure. He's been pretty solid for a couple games now, so, that's good. The rest of the team needs to start down that same path.
Coco-puffs
New member
herman said:
A week ago I said Hyman needs to stop up and find the next wave instead of driving the net all the time. Yeah, it works.
https://twitter.com/TheFlintor/status/928444420831133696
I'm not trying to be snarky here (ok, not TOO snarky)... but is this an instance of Matt Martin not doing his job? Babcock repeated the "he keeps the flies off our young guys" line just a couple of days ago. Andersen's job is to stop pucks. When he doesn't do that he gets rightfully criticized. Marner's job is to produce goals, when he doesn't do that he gets criticized. Gardiner's job is to help keep the puck out of our end, when he doesn't do that he gets criticized.
That's a 6'3", 230 lbs 4th line player running one of our young stars into the boards. That's Matt Martin not doing his job (as defined by Babcock).
I'm not trying to be snarky here (ok, not TOO snarky)... but is this an instance of Matt Martin not doing his job? Babcock repeated the "he keeps the flies off our young guys" line just a couple of days ago. Andersen's job is to stop pucks. When he doesn't do that he gets rightfully criticized. Marner's job is to produce goals, when he doesn't do that he gets criticized. Gardiner's job is to help keep the puck out of our end, when he doesn't do that he gets criticized.
That's a 6'3", 230 lbs 4th line player running one of our young stars into the boards. That's Matt Martin not doing his job (as defined by Babcock).
bustaheims
Active member
CarltonTheBear said:
It's just more evidence that having a Matt Martin type in the lineup is not a deterrent in any meaningful way - especially when he's not actually on the ice.
bustaheims
Active member
cabber24 said:
His not being able to prevent the hit from happening is evidence that we need him to prevent these types of hits from happening? Retribution isn't an effective deterrent (I mean, outside of mutually assured destruction - which is not at all the case here).
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
Every single one of the triplets has taken a significant questionable hit by the opposition through 17 games and only once do I recall Martin fighting the player responsible.
If Babcock wants to trot out the "keeping the flies off" nonsense, then he needs to be challenged by the media when our kids are victims of cheap stuff that goes unchallenged.
The media didn't call him out over his non-challenge on the 6th goal against St Louis on Saturday night either, it's pretty pathetic. I understand part of the media's job is build relationships that give them access, but being that subservient is embarrassing.
If Babcock wants to trot out the "keeping the flies off" nonsense, then he needs to be challenged by the media when our kids are victims of cheap stuff that goes unchallenged.
The media didn't call him out over his non-challenge on the 6th goal against St Louis on Saturday night either, it's pretty pathetic. I understand part of the media's job is build relationships that give them access, but being that subservient is embarrassing.
bustaheims
Active member
cabber24 said:
Just because the coach says something doesn't make it true or useful. He's not preventing anything. He never really has. Just because Babcock wants him to do something doesn't mean that he can or does. Guys like Martin cause these kinds of hits - as they're usually the ones delivering them. They don't prevent them.
cabber24 said:
Right, and that's all that I'm getting at. If Babcock wants Martin in the line-up and says he likes his forechecking and hitting and size then that's fine. I don't agree with it, but whatever. The problem is when you listen to his interviews the first thing (and sometimes only thing) he says when asked about Martin is that he "keeps the flies" off our players. And that's just bullcrap. He doesn't. No player in this league anymore does that.
bustaheims said:
I will say though, that Martin has shown on a couple occasions that he doesn't want to hurt someone. There was the play where he grabbed the guy and used himself as a cushion so that the player didn't slam in to the end boards. There was also the play with Karlsson, shere he shielded him, and apparently said something to him, because Karlsson gave him the double tap on the shoulder to say "Yep I'm good".
Not saying that he deserves to be in the lineup. Just saying he's not as bad as some that are out there to intentionally injure.
Coco-puffs
New member
bustaheims said:
Really? I don't think he was having a particularly bad night himself, but him and Borgman were buried in their own end alot. (32% CF) Borgman was definitely the worst of the two though. He had tons of trouble moving the puck. I'd really like to see Dermott come up.
bustaheims
Active member
Coco-puffs said:
Bergman's play definitely dragged the pairing's numbers down. I didn't notice Carrick making any significant mistakes, and he was good with the puck when he had it on his stick. For a third pairing guy, he was having a good night.
herman
Well-known member
RE: Martin
Justin Bourne and Kent Wilson had a good conversation about this very topic the other day:
https://theathletic.com/150291/2017/11/08/bourne-and-wilson-a-conversation-on-the-value-of-having-a-tough-guy/
They get into something that I've mused about before: hockey is run for the most part by people who've played the game (in different eras), so their priorities are sometimes emotional connections to what worked for them in the dressing room in the past.
Coming up against a team where you know someone will try to run you does affect your decision-making to a degree, which tips the balance of the many 50/50 plays that happen during the course of the game. Learning how to play through that will separate the elite players from the merely skilled players.
Aside from that, the skills dev team have been putting in really good work into the fringes of our lineup. Martin is a better puckhandler now than he was when he arrived (he's still probably the worst in our lineup, but it's serviceable now). Polak noticeably improved after a season and a half (but we can't fix his speed).
Justin Bourne and Kent Wilson had a good conversation about this very topic the other day:
https://theathletic.com/150291/2017/11/08/bourne-and-wilson-a-conversation-on-the-value-of-having-a-tough-guy/
They get into something that I've mused about before: hockey is run for the most part by people who've played the game (in different eras), so their priorities are sometimes emotional connections to what worked for them in the dressing room in the past.
Coming up against a team where you know someone will try to run you does affect your decision-making to a degree, which tips the balance of the many 50/50 plays that happen during the course of the game. Learning how to play through that will separate the elite players from the merely skilled players.
Aside from that, the skills dev team have been putting in really good work into the fringes of our lineup. Martin is a better puckhandler now than he was when he arrived (he's still probably the worst in our lineup, but it's serviceable now). Polak noticeably improved after a season and a half (but we can't fix his speed).
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
bustaheims said:
Yeah, playing a 69-year-old Scandinavian scout on the third pair was probably a bad idea.
