dappleganger
Active member
sneakyray said:
TSN is Fake News.
William Nylander
- Thread starter herman
- Start date
TSN is Fake News.
herman
Well-known member
Keep drafting them. Keep trading expiring assets for undervalued/underutilized prospect depth (a la Gardiner, Leipsic, Carrick). Develop the heck out of them until the cream rises to the top.
We're not in win-now mode, so there isn't really a reason to spend a cost-controlled asset of significant talent unless we're getting a similar level player in return (Werenski, Provarov, Jones, Hamilton, Trouba, Lindholm, etc.).
We're not in win-now mode, so there isn't really a reason to spend a cost-controlled asset of significant talent unless we're getting a similar level player in return (Werenski, Provarov, Jones, Hamilton, Trouba, Lindholm, etc.).
bustaheims
Active member
herman said:
*without having to add anything of significance to go with Nylander.
Kin
New member
Frank E said:
I think right now I'm less interested in the specifics of how they add to their defense than I am in them having the patience to realize the team, despite it's surprising competitiveness this season, is still 6 months removed from being the worst team in the league and as a result they don't have to have everything solved right now this minute. And that just because right this second the defense stinks and right this second we don't know who might emerge from our prospect pool as a major contributor that we need to be really concerned.
To that point, I also don't want their motivation to be "Our offense has looked pretty good the last 55 or so games, therefore it's set for the next 15 years and a guy who, absent his two teammates this year, might be having the best Leafs rookie season in almost 30 years is expendable".
Kin
New member
To my point above, let's look for a second at the Jones for Johansen trade and look at what had to happen just on Nashville's end to make it possible:
- The 2012-2013 Predators, a team who in their previous three seasons averaged 101 points had to suddenly drop to having the second worst record in the league.
- Seth Jones, by most accounts a consensus #2 or maybe even #1 pick, had to drop to #4.
- Roman Josi, a second round pick who'd scored 34 points in the 100 games he'd played over the previous two seasons, had to emerge as a legitimate Norris contender making Jones somewhat expendable.
Now, that's not likely to happen again but right now the Leafs need to be in a wait and see approach. Stockpiling the assets that make it possible that if one of those situations is out there, they can jump on it.
Right now the Leafs need to let things come to them rather than trying to press the issue because they're under the mistaken belief that they've got a really short window to win.
- The 2012-2013 Predators, a team who in their previous three seasons averaged 101 points had to suddenly drop to having the second worst record in the league.
- Seth Jones, by most accounts a consensus #2 or maybe even #1 pick, had to drop to #4.
- Roman Josi, a second round pick who'd scored 34 points in the 100 games he'd played over the previous two seasons, had to emerge as a legitimate Norris contender making Jones somewhat expendable.
Now, that's not likely to happen again but right now the Leafs need to be in a wait and see approach. Stockpiling the assets that make it possible that if one of those situations is out there, they can jump on it.
Right now the Leafs need to let things come to them rather than trying to press the issue because they're under the mistaken belief that they've got a really short window to win.
bustaheims
Active member
Nik the Trik said:
I also feel like I need to highlight something here. Improving the Leafs' defence and their defencemen are two different things. Related things, sure, but different. People seem to conflate the two.
The team's defence isn't going to be fixed by adding a top pairing defenceman. That'll help, sure, but the biggest thing that's going to help this team improve defensively is being afforded the time to gain experience and grow as a group - both forwards and defencemen. Defence is, after all, a team game.
azzurri63
Active member
bustaheims said:
Totally agree. Sure we can use an upgrade on the D but I think our problem is team defence. That's why I'm a bit peeved at Babcock and company for not fixing it. The quality scoring chances this team gives up game after game is atrocious and has been for the entire season. Was a stretch there a couple months ago where it was better but for the most part it's been dreadful all season long. It's Babcock's and the rest of the coaching staff to iron it out. I don';t understand how difficult it is to play 5 on 5 and cover your man. It's not that hard.I understand this team is young, tons of rookies, mistakes to be made but I haven't seen anything change really from game one. The team has to pull together and more so the forwards I think have to help out the D better. I know the offence may suffer from that but that's how good teams win. Maybe Mike & company wanna play this run and gun style. Nylander is going to be a great player. Unless it's for a D man like Herman suggested I"m not doing it, be a tough decision that may come back and bite us. I think the Leafs can improve the D without trading any of the valued youngsters. Couple minor tweaks or maybe a solid free agent signing and the D is better. Limit the good scoring chances and we'll be fine.
azzurri63
Active member
Nik the Trik said:
Nik our D corps isn't great I get that but a lot of the issues I think come from the forwards being out of position or running around etc. Every team gives up scoring chances I just think we give up way too may on a nightly basis. Babcock should simplify things and limit those chances. All these games we've blown don't just come down on the D it's the whole team. part of that problem and I'm not saying some changes on the D wouldn't help is to get some tougher D in here. All these guys other than Polak are softer than butter especially in front of the net. That I would like to see addressed.
1,2,1,2,3,Goals
[whistle]
Shed a tear 'cause they'd be missin' you
We'll put our trust in Kyle
Willie, they think about you every day now
Was a time when they weren't so sure
But you set their minds at ease
There is no doubt
You're a star now
Said, Shanny, take it slow
It'll work itself out fine
All we need is just a little patience
Said, Dubas, make it slow
And we come together fine
All we need is just a little patience
(patience)
Mm, yeah
Fans sit here in the stands
'Cause they'd rather see a win
If they can't have the cup right now
They'll wait, years
Sometimes the fans get so tense
But they can't speed up the time
But you know, Lou
There's one more thing to consider
Said, Shanny, take it slow
And things will be just fine
Lou and I'll just use a little patience
Said, Dubas, take the time
'Cause the rookies are shining bright
Lou and I've got what it takes
To make it, We won't trade him,
You'll never break him
'cause you can't take him
[whistle]
...little patience, mm yeah, mm yeah
need a little patience, yeah
just a little patience, yeah
some more patience, yeah
need some patience, yeah
could use some patience, yeah
gotta have some patience, yeah
all it takes is patience,
just a little patience
is all you need
THEY BEEN SCOUTIN' THE GAMES AT NIGHT
JUST TRYIN' TO GET IT RIGHT
HARD TO SEE WITH SO MANY AROUND
WE KNOW YOU DO LIKE
TO SKATE THROUGH A CROWD
AND THE D ALL CHANGE
BUT THE GOALS ARE THE SAME
HE'S GOT A MIND FOR THE GAME
'CAUSE THEY NEED YOU
YEAH, YEAH, BUT THEY NEED YOU
OO, THEY NEED YOU
WHOA, THEY NEED YOU
OO, ALL THIS TIME
[whistle]
Shed a tear 'cause they'd be missin' you
We'll put our trust in Kyle
Willie, they think about you every day now
Was a time when they weren't so sure
But you set their minds at ease
There is no doubt
You're a star now
Said, Shanny, take it slow
It'll work itself out fine
All we need is just a little patience
Said, Dubas, make it slow
And we come together fine
All we need is just a little patience
(patience)
Mm, yeah
Fans sit here in the stands
'Cause they'd rather see a win
If they can't have the cup right now
They'll wait, years
Sometimes the fans get so tense
But they can't speed up the time
But you know, Lou
There's one more thing to consider
Said, Shanny, take it slow
And things will be just fine
Lou and I'll just use a little patience
Said, Dubas, take the time
'Cause the rookies are shining bright
Lou and I've got what it takes
To make it, We won't trade him,
You'll never break him
'cause you can't take him
[whistle]
...little patience, mm yeah, mm yeah
need a little patience, yeah
just a little patience, yeah
some more patience, yeah
need some patience, yeah
could use some patience, yeah
gotta have some patience, yeah
all it takes is patience,
just a little patience
is all you need
THEY BEEN SCOUTIN' THE GAMES AT NIGHT
JUST TRYIN' TO GET IT RIGHT
HARD TO SEE WITH SO MANY AROUND
WE KNOW YOU DO LIKE
TO SKATE THROUGH A CROWD
AND THE D ALL CHANGE
BUT THE GOALS ARE THE SAME
HE'S GOT A MIND FOR THE GAME
'CAUSE THEY NEED YOU
YEAH, YEAH, BUT THEY NEED YOU
OO, THEY NEED YOU
WHOA, THEY NEED YOU
OO, ALL THIS TIME
Frank E
Active member
bustaheims said:
And just so that I'm clear, I'm not conflating them. I'm specifically interesting in the team acquiring a defenseman that's of the caliber of Doughty or Keith.
I agree that the team will take time to learn how to play a good defensive game, but I think they've got some pretty sharp young men there, and they're certainly well on their way to adjusting to the NHL game.
I don't really care why other people are wanting to address the defensemen, or lack thereof, but for me, this was always about building a contender, and I don't see a Stanley Cup winning team lately that doesn't have that 30 minute playoff TOI guy.
My thinking along the trade line was to somehow get a guy or two that was within the age cohort of the current emerging core, given that these elite defensemen usually take more than a few years to develop.
If they want to draft a couple, and the Leafs don't get themselves a legit top pairing guy (2 please) until 2020 'ish, I think you're going to have a problem getting sustainable increases in winning % moving forward over the next few years.
Kin
New member
azzurri63 said:
So leaving aside your opinion that the D needs "toughness", which believe me you've mentioned before, you are then of the opinion that there is something that Mike Babcock can do tactically as a coach that:
A) Would significantly lower the number of chances allowed
B) Would not lower the team's offensive output(or at least not to the point that it's a negative gain)
C) Is simple and straight forward and can be easily done by a team full of rookies.
Despite this very simple, incredibly effective strategy that's easy to see and implement, Babcock is steadfastly refusing to take the team in that direction because....he's afraid of hard work? Doesn't like winning?
Fact is, getting a young team to play good defense is going to be hard. A team without a lot of defensive talent on it makes it harder. The idea that there's just some flip Babcock could switch and change things for the better but that he doesn't makes almost no sense. "Just cover your man" is not a defensive strategy and it ignores that other teams scheme to free up men so as to generate offensive chances. "Just be in position all the time" is not possible.
It's like the people who think that the Leafs struggles to give up leads is because Babcock isn't telling them to force the play and not sit back. Babcock's a smart guy, they're paying him a lot of money to coach the team. If improving things were simple, I'm pretty confident he'd have figured it out.
Andy007
Active member
The way I look at it, a lot of these guys have so much to learn in the way of positioning, reading the play and defending that I don't really put much stock into blown leads, coverage and the like. Three of the team's top players are 20 and younger on a squad heavily comprised of rookies. There (currently) isn't a top pairing D-man on the roster. The fact that this team is in a playoff spot this far into the season is, to me at least, astounding.
And I don't see how "toughness" (or the lack thereof) has anything to do with any of the Leafs' struggles this year, quite frankly.
And I don't see how "toughness" (or the lack thereof) has anything to do with any of the Leafs' struggles this year, quite frankly.
Highlander
Active member
When dat comes from the boss man, that is great news. Willie can be a true superstar in time.disco said:
mr grieves
New member
Hyman and Brown have one even-strength goal in the last 12 games. Puck Daddy recommends reuniting Matthews with Nylander...
link: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/709044-155554636.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
link: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/709044-155554636.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter