William Nylander

[CarltonTheBear]

For some context, yesterday Dreger brought up Nylander's name when it came to trading for 22-year old (soon to be 23-year old) defenceman Brandon Montour out of Anaheim.

Now that Nonis is out of the picture, Dreger's back to being a garbage slinger.

By "out of the picture" you mean "employed by the team that Dreger is suggesting Nylander be traded to"?

 

[Zee]

For some context, yesterday Dreger brought up Nylander's name when it came to trading for 22-year old (soon to be 23-year old) defenceman Brandon Montour out of Anaheim.

Now that Nonis is out of the picture, Dreger's back to being a garbage slinger.

It's funny, Dreger actually made mention of the Nonis thing on the radio once.  Said something to the effect that he used to get twitter comments from people that didn't like him mentioning Nonis and his rumors.  He said he likes to block people like that, but it's funny that he's aware of the "Dreger's only source is Nonis" talk.

 

[sneakyray]

Headline story today on sportsnet by Chris Johnston:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/rest-assured-maple-leafs-fans-william-nylander-isnt-going-anywhere/

I must say I am getting tired of the tsn guys literally just making stuff up.

 

[herman]

Yes, TSN's Nylander thing is tiresome, but it's just speculation drawing the straight line from perceived cost for premium defense (thanks, Chiarelli) to what the Leafs have in their asset pool, not an Insider report. Nylander is an easy target similar to the way Kessel was in that the media doesn't have much of a relationship with him vs Matthews, Marner, Martin, Bozak, Kadri, JvR, Rielly, Gardiner, Carrick.

Bless Chris Johnston for dousing that silly line of thought with ice cold logic. Would love to see a Sportsnet v TSN throwdown, West Side Story/Romeo and Juliet style. McCormick and Hedger can be Tony/Romeo and Maria/Juliet.

 

[Kin]

The thing that's so frustrating about it is that I actually think Johnston's wrong, or at least he's fighting a stupid fight. The people advocating trading Nylander think they're getting equal value back so the "He's good, why would they trade him" is actually kind of dumb.

The problem is the people who are talking about trading Nylander are looking around and seeing a world that just doesn't exist. They're the Duke brothers' stooge in the pit at the end of Trading Places screaming "SELL SELL SELL" while everyone else is buying.

 

[dekedastardly]

Maybe for Fowler, but not Montour

 

[Bullfrog]

The thing that's so frustrating about it is that I actually think Johnston's wrong, or at least he's fighting a stupid fight. The people advocating trading Nylander think they're getting equal value back so the "He's good, why would they trade him" is actually kind of dumb.

The problem is the people who are talking about trading Nylander are looking around and seeing a world that just doesn't exist. They're the Duke brothers' stooge in the pit at the end of Trading Places screaming "SELL SELL SELL" while everyone else is buying.

I agree with you. The point of picking the best player available and stock-piling young talent is so you can have the most leverage in trades. If they think they're at a point where they need to start shaping the roster by position (and I don't think they're there yet) then an equal value trade is fine.

 

[sneakyray]

the thing with Nylander is that he is going to be a centre.  So you have a 20 year old with the potential to be a 30+ goal centre within the next couple of years...certainly by the time he is 25(barring injury).  So basically you have matt duchene at 20 that people want to trade for what?  a top 4 d who has the potential to be a #1?  and because its the logical thing.

weird

 

[Kin]

the thing with Nylander is that he is going to be a centre.  So you have a 20 year old with the potential to be a 30+ goal centre within the next couple of years...certainly by the time he is 25(barring injury).  So basically you have matt duchene at 20 that people want to trade for what?  a top 4 d who has the potential to be a #1?  and because its the logical thing.

weird

Maybe, but look at Colorado with Duchene(55 rookie points), Mackinnon(63) and Landeskog(52). As far as comparisons go, that might be one I'd avoid.

 

[Frank E]

I feel like I'm sitting in a boring board meeting where someone throws an idea out there to help solve a problem, and the people that shoot it down don't have a suggestion on how to deal with the problem.

 

[sneakyray]

the thing with Nylander is that he is going to be a centre.  So you have a 20 year old with the potential to be a 30+ goal centre within the next couple of years...certainly by the time he is 25(barring injury).  So basically you have matt duchene at 20 that people want to trade for what?  a top 4 d who has the potential to be a #1?  and because its the logical thing.

weird

Maybe, but look at Colorado with Duchene(55 rookie points), Mackinnon(63) and Landeskog(52). As far as comparisons go, that might be one I'd avoid.

my point is that you don't trade duchene at 20 (and nylander) for anybody because hes going to be a really good player in 1-3 years...hell nylander is already really good at 20.

I mean, if the leafs play their cards right nylander could be a point per game guy as a centre could he not?  I mean, its not guaranteed or anything but its not unreasonable or unrealistic expectations...sheltered minutes, PP time, with a guy like JVR on his wing.  I think nylander is going to be very good by the time he is 22 or 23.

 

[Kin]

I feel like I'm sitting in a boring board meeting where someone throws an idea out there to help solve a problem, and the people that shoot it down don't have a suggestion on how to deal with the problem.

It's funny, I feel like I'm on the ground floor of an exciting start-up with one guy looking across the street at Google and complaining that we don't have all the neat stuff they do.

 

[sneakyray]

I feel like I'm sitting in a boring board meeting where someone throws an idea out there to help solve a problem, and the people that shoot it down don't have a suggestion on how to deal with the problem.

It's funny, I feel like I'm on the ground floor of an exciting start-up with one guy looking across the street at Google and complaining that we don't have all the neat stuff they do.

well put nik

 

[dekedastardly]

I feel like I'm sitting in a boring board meeting where someone throws an idea out there to help solve a problem, and the people that shoot it down don't have a suggestion on how to deal with the problem.

I'd start with sitting Roman Slolak and let Marchenko have a turn. Polak's foot speed really hinders their ability to efficiently move the puck in the defensive zone. I see him lose battles every game. He seems to struggle keeping pace, and if he's not going to bring the nasty and clear in front of the net, what good is he?

 

[Kin]

my point is that you don't trade duchene at 20 (and nylander) for anybody because hes going to be a really good player in 1-3 years...hell nylander is already really good at 20.

Right and my counterpoint is that trading any player is as much a question of what you get back as it is how good the player you're trading is. Nylander's good. It's why he's valuable. It's why people think they'll be able to get equivalent value and address a weakness at the same time.

I think they're dead wrong about that last part but "We shouldn't trade anyone valuable" is just saying that you shouldn't trade for anyone valuable either.

 

[sneakyray]

my point is that you don't trade duchene at 20 (and nylander) for anybody because hes going to be a really good player in 1-3 years...hell nylander is already really good at 20.

Right and my counterpoint is that trading any player is as much a question of what you get back as it is how good the player you're trading is. Nylander's good. It's why he's valuable. It's why people think they'll be able to get equivalent value and address a weakness at the same time.

I think they're dead wrong about that last part but "We shouldn't trade anyone valuable" is just saying that you shouldn't trade for anyone valuable either.

I agree nik.  Of course I wouldn't mind trading nylander for [insert superstar defenseman name here] but ultimately if the value isn't coming back there shouldn't be a trade and I think the leafs brass will hold to that too.  This is why we won't see the leafs make any big moves this deadline.

 

[Kin]

I agree nik.  Of course I wouldn't mind trading nylander for [insert superstar defenseman name here] but ultimately if the value isn't coming back there shouldn't be a trade and I think the leafs brass will hold to that too.  This is why we won't see the leafs make any big moves this deadline.

That's all I'm saying. Trading Nylander is a bad idea but "Nylander's really good" isn't the reason.

But that said, if the Leafs don't trade out some veterans at the deadline I really truthfully believe deep down in my heart that they will be increasing the likelihood that they become a Colorado in a few years time.

 

[sneakyray]

I agree nik.  Of course I wouldn't mind trading nylander for [insert superstar defenseman name here] but ultimately if the value isn't coming back there shouldn't be a trade and I think the leafs brass will hold to that too.  This is why we won't see the leafs make any big moves this deadline.

That's all I'm saying. Trading Nylander is a bad idea but "Nylander's really good" isn't the reason.

But that said, if the Leafs don't trade out some veterans at the deadline I really truthfully believe deep down in my heart that they will be increasing the likelihood that they become a Colorado in a few years time.

how so?  are you talking hunlak who both won't be back next year anyway?  or are you talking jvr bozak who are maybe deals for the offseason anyway.

 

[mr grieves]

my point is that you don't trade duchene at 20 (and nylander) for anybody because hes going to be a really good player in 1-3 years...hell nylander is already really good at 20.

Right and my counterpoint is that trading any player is as much a question of what you get back as it is how good the player you're trading is. Nylander's good. It's why he's valuable. It's why people think they'll be able to get equivalent value and address a weakness at the same time.

I think they're dead wrong about that last part but "We shouldn't trade anyone valuable" is just saying that you shouldn't trade for anyone valuable either.

If that's true -- and based an (albeit very) limited sample -- it seems to be, I wonder if maybe we've been wrong to assume BPA is the best drafting strategy.

Maybe this all works out with a Dougie Hamilton-esque trade. That's a thing that happened once.

 

[Kin]

If that's true -- and based an (albeit very) limited sample -- it seems to be, I wonder if maybe we've been wrong to assume BPA is the best drafting strategy.

I've long thought that way. Especially when BPA is really just Guy We Like the Most.