what to do about William Nylander. He looks so disinterested on the ice. His play is uninspired and frankly piss poor. His decisions out on the ice are horrible. As soon as he gets the puck he tries to pass to Tavaris, just incase someone might bump him. Doesn't matter if Tavaris has 3 guys on him, the pass is going that way. 90% of the time he looses the puck to the opposition after the team has total control in the oppositions end. Trade him, please
Willy
- Thread starter cap44
- Start date
OldTimeHockey
Active member
cap44 said:
You got this one herman?
ZBBM
Active member
I know there's no appetite for relitigating Nylander and has playstyle but I would like to see some more goals out of him. I do think he's capable of more in that area. The only SOG I recall from last night was after somebody else missed on a better chance.
Relatedly, it's not his fault that Kerfoot didn't bury a gimme.
Relatedly, it's not his fault that Kerfoot didn't bury a gimme.
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
4 goals in 15 games, just 2 in his last 14 games. I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with saying those numbers should be higher. At the same time up until a couple of games ago he was still at a point per game pace.
I don't think him and Tavares have been playing poorly necessarily but they're definitely due for a game where their line is the one that leads us to victory. It also feels like their other winger has been changing every other game, so with Thornton and Robertson due back soon hopefully Keefe is able to find some stability there and that can get them going.
dappleganger
Active member
CarltonTheBear said:
Leafs need more out of that line. They were looking good in the brief time Simmonds was inserted on the second line. Mikheyev looked better on line 3 and Vesey won't cut it. Try Hyman back there and move someone on the first line.
Dappleganger said:
I originally thought Thornton would get his spot back on the top line when he returned but with the way they're playing it might be good to just keep those 3 together. Put Thornton with Tavares and Nylander and see if that gets them going.
herman
Well-known member
OldTimeHockey said:
As a big time fan of Nylander, I am equally frustrated he is not posting up McDavidian numbers as his sleep-deprived centre and frequent slot pass recipient posts a 3% shooting percentage 5v5, and no longer has a PP role in the net-front role he very clearly dominated in last season, and the rotating carousel of opposite wingers has mostly been experiments with Stonehands McGee, Concrete Mittens, and Fallaton Fallerson.
Nylander continues to push the puck into the OZ under control, and has really upped his game defensively, so I'm not long-term worried.
OldTimeHockey
Active member
herman said:
This.
If we want more goals out of Nylander, we need someone to get him the puck.
People want both things out of him. They want him to score goals, and they also want him to be the one digging for pucks in the corner. It doesn't work like that.
Until they can put a strong F1 with him, you'll continue to be frustrated by his lack of production in the G department.
As for the comment that he gets rid of the puck before he gets hit...Ummmm, isn't that the name of the game? Bring defenders to you and move the puck to an open teammate.
herman
Well-known member
OldTimeHockey said:
OP does have a fair criticism of Tavares, in that the dude welcomes triple-teams and tries to problem solve his way out of it solo a little more than I'd like; to be fair he used to be able to do it on the regular. Last I checked, he has pretty bad giveaway numbers so far this season, and I don't think having a second child is unrelated.
I really do think Nylander started this season with the mentality of getting his linemates goals. Both JT and Willy are pretty capable in playing all three forward roles, but in the early goings here, it has basically been their other winger or a defenseman taking most of the shots, which is suboptimal. Hyman being added to the line with Thornton's imminent return will likely coincide with an uptick for this line's production.
dappleganger
Active member
CarltonTheBear said:
Thornton with two great shooters like Tavares and Nylander seems like a good idea. Jumbo shoots Left so Willy could go back to the right side.
ZBBM
Active member
CarltonTheBear said:
Yes.
Maybe it's the home situation, but it also could be that Tavares is beginning a slow, demographic descent from his peak, as do most forwards his age IIRC.
I'm with Dappleganger: Jumboize that line. Thornton is on this team to do what Thornton does. If he has two targets to pass to then I would expect to see both 88 and 91's goal numbers to rise. Defense can't cover two scoring threats on a line better than just one.
Phileas Fogg
New member
I think the narrative that he's been terrible is as about as accurate as the idea that his lack of production is because it's tavares' fault.
He's a talented, but not elite, 6.9M player, who like all players, occasionally plays at a level above that cap hit, and occasionally below. The only reason people expect more is because he's constantly talked into the stratosphere by his fans.
He's a very good 2nd line winger. Nothing more, and nothing less. I'm happy to have him on the leafs.
He's a talented, but not elite, 6.9M player, who like all players, occasionally plays at a level above that cap hit, and occasionally below. The only reason people expect more is because he's constantly talked into the stratosphere by his fans.
He's a very good 2nd line winger. Nothing more, and nothing less. I'm happy to have him on the leafs.
L K
Active member
Neither Willy or JT are bad playmakers in the least but I do feel that their line is missing a guy to help facilitate shots. Vesey, Mikheyev, even the short stretch of Hyman, there really isn't a Mitch Marner on that line to feed stuff. Nylander can feed JT. JT can get the puck to guys but he's at his best grinding in the corner and in front of the net rather than getting stuff going cross ice.
I don't know that we have a guy on the roster who can fit that role. Honestly maybe even Thornton on that line for a trial?
I don't know that we have a guy on the roster who can fit that role. Honestly maybe even Thornton on that line for a trial?
azzurri63
Active member
I'm going to disagree with most here as far as production. My memory aint the greatest but who did Willy and JT have on their line going back to last season? Memory serves me right it probably was multiple wingers. For the most part a grinder like Hyman maybe Mikheyev, Kappy, Johnsson at times not sure. Numbers for both him and JT were good but this year been flat out terrible and what makes matter worse been against some pretty weak teams and it's the regular season. If it's been a Houdini act now what's it going to be like come playoff time when things get more physical and tougher? Nylander has always had that reputation of being soft, timid, shying away from the physical side of the game and that in my opinion isn't going to change. Everyone says they're kids, give it time it will come. Well when is my question and personally with him that's not going to happen. I've been a fan of Willy and the talent is enormous but he needs to step it up and not here and there. I was not a big fan of his holdout and if you go back to my posts I would have traded him. He held out and still got what he wanted and quite frankly I feel it had a bearing on AM & MM's contracts which I'm not going to go there. Bottom line is we have $18 million dollars tied up into 2 players on the second line and definitely not getting what we should be out of both of them.
Last 5 games:
WN 0 goals, 0 assists, 0 Points, 8 shots +1
JT 0 goals, 4 assists, 4 points 14 shots +1 with 1 assist being a secondary one on AM 5-3 goal the other night.
Can call it what you want but numbers are atrocious. Call it a lull, slump whatever but if this team wants to continue to win they can't rely on the 1st line to carry them every night. I expected a breakout game on Monday and it was far from that. Let's hope they turn it around tonight. I'm saying they do and I hope I'm right and hopefully that will be a start of something.
Last 5 games:
WN 0 goals, 0 assists, 0 Points, 8 shots +1
JT 0 goals, 4 assists, 4 points 14 shots +1 with 1 assist being a secondary one on AM 5-3 goal the other night.
Can call it what you want but numbers are atrocious. Call it a lull, slump whatever but if this team wants to continue to win they can't rely on the 1st line to carry them every night. I expected a breakout game on Monday and it was far from that. Let's hope they turn it around tonight. I'm saying they do and I hope I'm right and hopefully that will be a start of something.
herman
Well-known member
Their winger last year was mostly Kerfoot, which to L K's point, is a pass first facilitation type of player.
Willy is fine and kind of playing better than before really (if we're talking two-way play). Right now his shots are missing the net a bit, but his attempt rate and locations are in line with last year (lots from the tight slot -- hard ice -- as Willy tends to prefer). He's playing less time but his line is getting better underlying results in everything that matters, but shooting percentage (Tavares is shooting 3%).
Willy is fine and kind of playing better than before really (if we're talking two-way play). Right now his shots are missing the net a bit, but his attempt rate and locations are in line with last year (lots from the tight slot -- hard ice -- as Willy tends to prefer). He's playing less time but his line is getting better underlying results in everything that matters, but shooting percentage (Tavares is shooting 3%).
herman said:
I was in the middle of looking into this. Just to confirm, Tavares and Nylander played 9+ minutes together at 5-on-5 in 27 games last season. Kerfoot was their primary winger in 17 of those games. And Dennis Malgin of all players was actually the next most used 3rd player with those two. After that Hyman, Johnsson, Mikheyev, Kapanen, Spezza, and Engvall all got very limited amounts of ice-time on that line.
Makes me wonder if the Leafs might be hoping Galchenyuk could fill a 3C void so Kerfoot could go back there. I mean that's pretty ambitious but it would at least explain that move a little better.
bustaheims
Active member
herman said:
This. The Leafs have a number of players whose 5-on-5 shooting percentage has nowhere to go but up. Tavares might be the most extreme of them, but there are others - Hyman, Mikheyev, etc.