Your personal all-time Leafs team

[Pick]

Ok, everybody is stuck in their era, so I'll do the same. My era goes farther back than most because of my age. I could relate better to Highlander's team than most others. The top achievers while I've been watching:

Plante's 1.88 GAA, and 2nd team all-star selection in '70-71 was the best performance.

Horton made the '68-69 Ist all-star team - only Orr got more votes. Horton also made the 2nd team the previous two seasons.

Salming made the 1st team once and the 2nd team many times.

Lanny McDonald made the 2nd team once as a leaf

Sittler made the 2nd team once as did Dave Keon ( during my era anyway). Keon also won the Conn Smythe trophy in '67 (probably the most important achievement of any Leaf during my era)

Sundin made the 2nd team twice.

My team:
Goal, Plante, Belfour, Joseph
Def, Salming, Horton, Turnbull, Reilly, Kaberle, McCabe, Ellett
Center, Sundin, Gilmour, Keon, Matthews, Sittler
LWing, Clark, Andreychuck, Roberts, Williams, Henderson
RWing, McDonald, Marner, Ellis, Paiment, Pappin (top scorer in '67 cup win)

It's damned hard to make 1st team All-Star.  Sundin is a first-ballot HOFer and he never made it.  And as much as I loved him, honestly compels me to admit that he didn't deserve to; there was always somebody a little bit better.

Of course, those somebodies weren't playing with Jonas Hoglunds on their lines.

Depth has been a problem since the late sixties. Keon played with an over the hill Oliver and Smith. Later he'd work with Monahan, MacMillan and Dupere.

Even the better players Sundin had to play with, Mogilny, Nolan, Thomas, Roberts were past their prime. So what Keon and Sundin did as leafs is all the better knowing they didn't play with top players.

Gilmore had Clark, Andreychuck and Anderson; Sittler had McDonald; Matthews has Marner and Nylander.

 

[Kin]

I just wonder what gave Sakic the edge that year despite being (very slightly) outscored points wise and crushed goals wise. All while playing on a team with other certain future HHOFs. Does anyone with a better memory than 13-year old CtB recall anything about that argument?

Somewhere on this board, I feel like me and HeroicShrimp once had just a really excessively detailed back and forth about Sundin vs. Sakic that covered some of that stuff.

 

[L K]

It's damned hard to make 1st team All-Star.  Sundin is a first-ballot HOFer and he never made it.  And as much as I loved him, honestly compels me to admit that he didn't deserve to; there was always somebody a little bit better.

Of course, those somebodies weren't playing with Jonas Hoglunds on their lines.

Could you make the case that Sundin was kinda robbed of being a 1st team All-Star in 01-02? He finished second to Sakic that year but he had 1 more point than Sakic and also 15 (!) more goals. While Colorado wasn't exactly as stacked that year offensively as they would be later on they still had Roy (1st team All-Star) and Blake (2nd team All-Star).

I just wonder what gave Sakic the edge that year despite being (very slightly) outscored points wise and crushed goals wise. All while playing on a team with other certain future HHOFs. Does anyone with a better memory than 13-year old CtB recall anything about that argument?

My guess would be that Sakic had just come off his 118 point Hart Trophy season the year before so reputation had a lot to do with it.

 

[Bender]

Ok, everybody is stuck in their era, so I'll do the same. My era goes farther back than most because of my age. I could relate better to Highlander's team than most others. The top achievers while I've been watching:

Plante's 1.88 GAA, and 2nd team all-star selection in '70-71 was the best performance.

Horton made the '68-69 Ist all-star team - only Orr got more votes. Horton also made the 2nd team the previous two seasons.

Salming made the 1st team once and the 2nd team many times.

Lanny McDonald made the 2nd team once as a leaf

Sittler made the 2nd team once as did Dave Keon ( during my era anyway). Keon also won the Conn Smythe trophy in '67 (probably the most important achievement of any Leaf during my era)

Sundin made the 2nd team twice.

My team:
Goal, Plante, Belfour, Joseph
Def, Salming, Horton, Turnbull, Reilly, Kaberle, McCabe, Ellett
Center, Sundin, Gilmour, Keon, Matthews, Sittler
LWing, Clark, Andreychuck, Roberts, Williams, Henderson
RWing, McDonald, Marner, Ellis, Paiment, Pappin (top scorer in '67 cup win)

It's damned hard to make 1st team All-Star.  Sundin is a first-ballot HOFer and he never made it.  And as much as I loved him, honestly compels me to admit that he didn't deserve to; there was always somebody a little bit better.

Of course, those somebodies weren't playing with Jonas Hoglunds on their lines.

It's really kind of crazy.  Over his career 1990-2008 Mats was 5th in goals, 5th in assists and 4th in points over the era.  He falls off quite a bit in terms of playoff production despite putting up 82 points in 91 games.

He's hugely underrated and almost always had linemates not up to his calibre except for maybe Mogs. He's 19th in points and 21st in goals era adjusted. I mean, 20th best doesn't sound great, but in a sport like this spanning as long as it did is a pretty decent feat. 28th all time non-era adjusted is still amazing.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Clarkson - Cereda - Bullard
S. Pearson - M. Ihnacak - Biggs
Devane - Connolly - Blake
Orr - Rosehill - McLaren

Finger - Schenn
Ware - Zaitsev
Exelby - Berg

Pogge
Toskala

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I'm gonna take an exception to this and say that Jason Blake was actually an underrated Leaf. And I feel bad for how things turned out with Connolly too.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I'm gonna take an exception to this and say that Jason Blake was actually an underrated Leaf. And I feel bad for how things turned out with Connolly too.

I'll accept that, although I would argue that my central theme here is generally just disappointment, expressed in the multitude of ways the Leafs have mastered over the years.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I'm gonna take an exception to this and say that Jason Blake was actually an underrated Leaf. And I feel bad for how things turned out with Connolly too.

I'll accept that, although I would argue that my central theme here is generally just disappointment, expressed in the multitude of ways the Leafs have mastered over the years.

Fair. In that case, let's all think fondly about Gilmour's return to the Leafs...

 

[bustaheims]

Clarkson - Cereda - Bullard
S. Pearson - M. Ihnacak - Biggs
Devane - Connolly - Blake
Orr - Rosehill - McLaren

Finger - Schenn
Ware - Zaitsev
Exelby - Berg

Pogge
Toskala

Chaotic Evil.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Clarkson - Cereda - Bullard
S. Pearson - M. Ihnacak - Biggs
Devane - Connolly - Blake
Orr - Rosehill - McLaren

Finger - Schenn
Ware - Zaitsev
Exelby - Berg

Pogge
Toskala

Chaotic Evil.

He was missing your favourite though.

 

[Frank E]

I'm gonna take an exception to this and say that Jason Blake was actually an underrated Leaf. And I feel bad for how things turned out with Connolly too.

I'll accept that, although I would argue that my central theme here is generally just disappointment, expressed in the multitude of ways the Leafs have mastered over the years.

Todd Warriner.

 

[herman]

Stoically Dazzling: Tavares - Sundin - Mogilny
Unfairly Maligned: Kadri - Nylander - Kessel
F?n Maniacs: Roberts - Grabovski - Tucker
Worker Bees: Kulemin - Stajan - Hyman
Perfect Spare: Winnik, Komarov

Kaberle - McCabe
Gardiner - Rielly
Phaneuf - Yushkevich
Marincin

Belfour (probably not water in that bottle)
Reimer

 

[bustaheims]

Clarkson - Cereda - Bullard
S. Pearson - M. Ihnacak - Biggs
Devane - Connolly - Blake
Orr - Rosehill - McLaren

Finger - Schenn
Ware - Zaitsev
Exelby - Berg

Pogge
Toskala

Chaotic Evil.

He was missing your favourite though.

That's the only reason he's not True Evil.

 

[berserker]

Last night I watched NHL classics
Game 6 Leafs vs LA conference final
1993.  Wendel what a game !
It was like I relived that piece of time
I was cheering for the Leafs and swearing at the reffing of Fraser throughout the game

 

[ZBBM]

Stoically Dazzling: Tavares - Sundin - Mogilny
Unfairly Maligned: Kadri - Nylander - Kessel
F?n Maniacs: Roberts - Grabovski - Tucker
Worker Bees: Kulemin - Stajan - Hyman
Perfect Spare: Winnik, Komarov

Kaberle - McCabe
Gardiner - Rielly
Phaneuf - Yushkevich
Marincin

Belfour (probably not water in that bottle)
Reimer

GRABBO!
YUSHKIE!
ONION!

 

[herman]

Oh crap I forgot Seth Griffith.

 

[Chris]

Unfairly Maligned: Kadri - Nylander - Kessel

How about a "Hotdogs and Donuts" line featuring Wellwood and Kessel. Not sure who the best fit would be on the left side though.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Unfairly Maligned: Kadri - Nylander - Kessel

How about a "Hotdogs and Donuts" line featuring Wellwood and Kessel. Not sure who the best fit would be on the left side though.

Jeff "Hamburgler" O'Neill. 

 

[herman]

Unfairly Maligned: Kadri - Nylander - Kessel

How about a "Hotdogs and Donuts" line featuring Wellwood and Kessel. Not sure who the best fit would be on the left side though.

You mean cancer-survivor, #3 active iron man, and two-time Cup champion Phil Kessel?

I think we can throw together a line of first NHL game goal Leaf picks too, other than the aforementioned Matt Stajan.
Tlusty - Matthews - Korshkov

 

[Kin]

This is going to make me sound about 1,000 years old but I really sometimes think that Clark is someone who is really hard to explain to people. Especially to younger people for whom fighting has always been seen as sort of a damaging and counter-productive element of the game.

But back in the early 80's and 90's the idea of having someone around who was very maybe the best fighter around as well as an excellent goalscorer felt like your team had one of the best weapons in the entire game. People sometimes talked about Probert being a solid player in addition to being one of the better fighters out there largely based on one sort of flukey year where he scored 29 goals but Clark in his first go-round with the Leafs averaged about 37 goals per 82 games while just destroying people when the gloves dropped. The guy was a super-hero and, quite frankly, I don't really think there was anyone else quite like him.

I get all of the intellectual/hockey based arguments about why fighting needed to leave the game but when you were a kid and didn't know about all of the consequences it was just incredible to watch. The idea that we'll never see another Wendel Clark makes me sad, even though I know it's ultimately for the best.

And seriously though, I want to stress how good he was. If you look at his career from when the Leafs got good until when the injuries finally caught up with him I think you get the real picture. From 92-93 to 96-97 he scored 137 goals and 252 points in 303 games. That's 37 goals and 68 points per 82. I really, genuinely believe that with better luck with injuries and being on better teams that he'd have ended up in the Hall of Fame.