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2012 CBA Negotiations Thread

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Hampreacher said:
Time for the moderates to step forward and settle things before Fehr gets his legacy to retire with. ie destroying the NHL.
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In what world does "destroying the NHL" and whatever you think that means add to Fehr's legacy? The best possible thing for the NHLPA is a NHL that is financially healthy and capable of offering players a lot of money and jobs. You know...like he left things with Major League Baseball and its players.

If Fehr was primarily motivated by his legacy he wouldn't have touched the clown shoes that is the NHLPA with a ten foot pole. Why would he? He retired from Baseball as one of the most successful labour leaders in history, with the league on solid financial ground and the players earning tons.

 
Hampreacher said:
Time for the moderates to step forward and settle things before Fehr gets his legacy to retire with. ie destroying the NHL.
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You say that like Fehr is sitting in his lair, rubbing his hands together, and in his best evil voice saying "You will die evil NHL! Die!"...which of course is followed by his maniacal laugh!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv7DZOCuOso[/youtube]
 
It's funny, a lot of people are either into entirely blaming Bettman or entirely blaming Fehr, or at least that's how their posts / comments / discussions come across (on message boards or in person). I can't say I'm completely innocent either (Bettman/owners 75%, Fehr/players 25%). It kinda reminds me of people arguing about politics in a way - your person is right, the other is wrong, and that's it!
 
Derk said:
It's funny, a lot of people are either into entirely blaming Bettman or entirely blaming Fehr, or at least that's how their posts / comments / discussions come across (on message boards or in person). I can't say I'm completely innocent either (Bettman/owners 75%, Fehr/players 25%). It kinda reminds me of people arguing about politics in a way - your person is right, the other is wrong, and that's it!
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human nature ...even if your opinion only skews slightly one way or another ..you're still libel to focus on why you're right and they're wrong ...you're defending your position ..so any perceived opposition will be met with an ever increasing defense until you seem like you're at the extreme end of the spectrum
 
crazyperfectdevil said:
Derk said:
It's funny, a lot of people are either into entirely blaming Bettman or entirely blaming Fehr, or at least that's how their posts / comments / discussions come across (on message boards or in person). I can't say I'm completely innocent either (Bettman/owners 75%, Fehr/players 25%). It kinda reminds me of people arguing about politics in a way - your person is right, the other is wrong, and that's it!
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human nature ...even if your opinion only skews slightly one way or another ..you're still libel to focus on why you're right and they're wrong ...you're defending your position ..so any perceived opposition will be met with an ever increasing defense until you seem like you're at the extreme end of the spectrum
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Agreed - more *applause*! ;D
 
crazyperfectdevil said:
Derk said:
It's funny, a lot of people are either into entirely blaming Bettman or entirely blaming Fehr, or at least that's how their posts / comments / discussions come across (on message boards or in person). I can't say I'm completely innocent either (Bettman/owners 75%, Fehr/players 25%). It kinda reminds me of people arguing about politics in a way - your person is right, the other is wrong, and that's it!
Click to expand...

human nature ...even if your opinion only skews slightly one way or another ..you're still libel to focus on why you're right and they're wrong ...you're defending your position ..so any perceived opposition will be met with an ever increasing defense until you seem like you're at the extreme end of the spectrum
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will not.
 
Games kablooie through Jan 14....  The water in the toilet bowl is beginning to swirl more rapidly as we build momentum toward The Big Flush.
 
Rob L said:
At this point, I'm looking forward to it. It's not that I don't care, but "Uncle." Know what I mean?
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Sure do.  The constant public posturing is, in part, designed to pummel the fanbase into a state of cowed submission.
 
So we may get half a season this year and many estimates have league revenue going down by a billion dollars next year after this fiasco.  Players will lose half a season's salary and maybe a full one.  Their share will drop to around 50% of what now might be $2.2 billion instead of $3.? billion.  It really is looking like the players would have been significantly better off signing an instant 50/50 deal several months ago if they could have gotten some contract rights for it??
 
Bates said:
So we may get half a season this year and many estimates have league revenue going down by a billion dollars next year after this fiasco.  Players will lose half a season's salary and maybe a full one.  Their share will drop to around 50% of what now might be $2.2 billion instead of $3.? billion.  It really is looking like the players would have been significantly better off signing an instant 50/50 deal several months ago if they could have gotten some contract rights for it??
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Without a doubt. Owners would have been better off offering a 50-50 split right away too. They players will end up losing more.
 
Like it's been said before. The point of a union isn't "What will I get this year or next year?", it's "what will we get in 10 years?"...

If the players would of signed the 50/50 CBA, they would of also been accepting a boatload of concessions in contract issues.
 
dm_for_pm said:
Without a doubt. Owners would have been better off offering a 50-50 split right away too.
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I bet that what both sides would say to that is that if they'd offered or agreed to a 50-50 split any sooner than they did tham the other side would have said "thanks" and countered with a 52-48 split and both sides are probably right.
 
dm_for_pm said:
Without a doubt. Owners would have been better off offering a 50-50 split right away too. They players will end up losing more.
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If the owners offered 50/50 right away, they likely would never have gotten the players down to that point. The PA rightfully would have used it as a starting point rather than a meeting point.

Their proposal of 43% was, according to a number of people who have been through CBA negotiations, a pretty clear indication that they expected to end up at 50%.
 
It is kind of frustrating the players got what they wanted and owners what they wanted. Granted both wanted more but in reality a middle ground was acheived then enter Fehr and Bettman. Fehr seeks to push the envelop and it implodes. You are where you realistically could make it work. Settle before you endanger the weaker teams financially even more.
 
bustaheims said:
Their proposal of 43% was, according to a number of people who have been through CBA negotiations, a pretty clear indication that they expected to end up at 50%.
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I still think tactically that first offer was a mistake on their part. I think they could have achieved largely the same results starting at 45 or 47% and it would have been seen as less of an insulting offer that stood no realistic chance of starting a discussion. Combined with some rollback of contracting rights that they should never have put on the table in the first place and I think that offer did more to galvanize the PA than anything.
 
Nik V. Debs said:
bustaheims said:
Their proposal of 43% was, according to a number of people who have been through CBA negotiations, a pretty clear indication that they expected to end up at 50%.
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I still think tactically that first offer was a mistake on their part. I think they could have achieved largely the same results starting at 45 or 47% and it would have been seen as less of an insulting offer that stood no realistic chance of starting a discussion. Combined with some rollback of contracting rights that they should never have put on the table in the first place and I think that offer did more to galvanize the PA than anything.
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I agree 100%

It's like lowballing someone when you make an offer on their house. You may get lucky if they're really desperate but most times you just p*ss them off and make them not want to deal with you.
 
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