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2013 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

OldTimeHockey said:
Mack674 said:
These 'athletes' , I use that term loosely for baseball, are treated like precious commodities and im sure the owners would have them wrapped in bubble packing if it were feasible so when they say "my x hurts im not playing" they're going to let them sit out.

I'm just noticing a pattern here with this guy (bautista) and Lawrie specifically.
Click to expand...

Lawrie has a history of sitting out games? My opinion of him is that he'd do anything to win a game. Watching him in the dugout during the World Baseball Classic he appeared to almost be in tears because he wanted to be out there so badly.

I'm sure some players have cried wolf, but my opinion is Lawrie isn't one of them.
Click to expand...

That's because he's Canadian.
 
Potvin29 said:
Ever had back spasms?

Tell me how you'd like playing baseball with it, specifically swinging a bat: http://www.cedars-sinai.edu/Patients/Health-Conditions/Back-Spasm.aspx
Click to expand...

I've had plenty worse than back spasms.

All im saying is, this guy is made of glass and who's to say he even is injured at all? Ever heard of malingering ? He plays baseball, not deathsports and look at his injury history: 3 games, sore ankle. 36 games, sore wrist. 34 games, sore wrist. 1 game, neck hurts. 3 games, sore ankle. 5 games, sore neck, etc.

From 2006-2011 he missed 17 games total. Since coming to Toronto he's missed 85.

That plus his antics on the field at times throwing mini tantrums because the umpire doesn't call it the way he'd like is childish and ridiculous. When in the history of baseball has throwing a tantrum at the plate made an umpire reverse a call? Pretty sure it's never. So he's just acting like a baby and doing no one, particularly himself, any favors in doing so.

Curiously enough, he seems to take these injury timeouts during periods when the team isn't doing well, or when the season is lost anyway. I took to wondering last year how many of those guys were actually injured and how many were just sitting it out because they didn't feel like playing on a losing team to finish out the year ? I'm sure it's not all of them but I'd bet my left leg there was at least one or two.

These guys are worse than soccer players at times. Meanwhile, Chris Pronger tries to play hockey with half a brain...
 
OldTimeHockey said:
Mack674 said:
These 'athletes' , I use that term loosely for baseball, are treated like precious commodities and im sure the owners would have them wrapped in bubble packing if it were feasible so when they say "my x hurts im not playing" they're going to let them sit out.

I'm just noticing a pattern here with this guy (bautista) and Lawrie specifically.
Click to expand...

Lawrie has a history of sitting out games? My opinion of him is that he'd do anything to win a game. Watching him in the dugout during the World Baseball Classic he appeared to almost be in tears because he wanted to be out there so badly.

I'm sure some players have cried wolf, but my opinion is Lawrie isn't one of them.
Click to expand...

I'd like to believe you, but ive seen some pretty magnificent performances put on in the past. He knows he was on tv and couldn't play, he's not an idiot. Not saying i'm right or you are, im just saying its possible and considering his 'injury' was a strained oblique or a pulled muscle and it took THIS long to recover....

Like I said, i've witnessed guys recover from much more serious injuries faster than this, so either the Toronto Blue Jays have some of the the worlds worst sports therapists and doctors....
 
Mack674 said:
Potvin29 said:
Ever had back spasms?

Tell me how you'd like playing baseball with it, specifically swinging a bat: http://www.cedars-sinai.edu/Patients/Health-Conditions/Back-Spasm.aspx
Click to expand...

I've had plenty worse than back spasms.

All im saying is, this guy is made of glass and who's to say he even is injured at all? Ever heard of malingering ? He plays baseball, not deathsports and look at his injury history: 3 games, sore ankle. 36 games, sore wrist. 34 games, sore wrist. 1 game, neck hurts. 3 games, sore ankle. 5 games, sore neck, etc.

From 2006-2011 he missed 17 games total. Since coming to Toronto he's missed 85.

That plus his antics on the field at times throwing mini tantrums because the umpire doesn't call it the way he'd like is childish and ridiculous. When in the history of baseball has throwing a tantrum at the plate made an umpire reverse a call? Pretty sure it's never. So he's just acting like a baby and doing no one, particularly himself, any favors in doing so.

Curiously enough, he seems to take these injury timeouts during periods when the team isn't doing well, or when the season is lost anyway. I took to wondering last year how many of those guys were actually injured and how many were just sitting it out because they didn't feel like playing on a losing team to finish out the year ? I'm sure it's not all of them but I'd bet my left leg there was at least one or two.

These guys are worse than soccer players at times. Meanwhile, Chris Pronger tries to play hockey with half a brain...
Click to expand...

I'm sure lots of people have had worse.  I asked if you had that specific ailment since you are judging him on it.  I haven't, so I have to defer to others on what seems like a pretty painful and uncomfortable injury.  Bautista himself said it hurts to just get dressed.

Why would the best HR hitter in the majors just sit out?  If he doesn't care, why would he have not just given up when he was bounced around from team to team for years?  All of a sudden now that he's the best HR hitter in the majors he's just going to give up?  After spending all the time to refine his swing?

None of that makes any sense whatsoever.  The team has doctors.  If he had nothing wrong with him, you think the team would just let their best power hitter sit out?

Hockey and baseball are different sports, there's no point comparing what injuries a player does or doesn't play through.  I don't know of any NHLers playing through sprained ankles or wrists.  Concussions aren't comparable to those injuries.
 
Mack674 said:
OldTimeHockey said:
While I sometimes question professional athlete's injuries, if Bautista can't swing the bat because of his back, what good is he in the line up?
Click to expand...

I'm suggesting he probably could, he just doesn't feel like it right now. I've seen it too many times to count in other areas I've worked where guys will use just about any excuse to take it easy for a few days or a few weeks because they just don't really care at that particular time. Despite being paid millions, I'm not inclined to believe baseball players are enhanced humans that are immune to this kind of lazy disease effect. There seems to be some kind of culture for it in baseball specifically.

Especially when you consider far more physically demanding and strenuous sports like hockey or football where guys have and do play with broken bones, concussions and other ailments to some degree of effectiveness - sometimes no one even knows they were hurt until after the fact or it's revealed in the off season.

These 'athletes' , I use that term loosely for baseball, are treated like precious commodities and im sure the owners would have them wrapped in bubble packing if it were feasible so when they say "my x hurts im not playing" they're going to let them sit out.

I'm just noticing a pattern here with this guy (bautista) and Lawrie specifically.
Click to expand...

I understand your frustrations, but no, you can't play through a back injury with any degree of effectiveness. It also doesn't make sense to aggravate an injury this early in the year.

I played baseball through a broken pinky finger by taping it to my ring finger. I now have reduced mobility of that finger and arthritis in my hand at 29 years of age, and nearly lost my job because of it. It is a poor choice in any profession, let alone sports, to work through an injury. Doing so doesn't prove that you're tough, just that you're stupid.
 
Mack674 said:
Potvin29 said:
Ever had back spasms?

Tell me how you'd like playing baseball with it, specifically swinging a bat: http://www.cedars-sinai.edu/Patients/Health-Conditions/Back-Spasm.aspx
Click to expand...

I've had plenty worse than back spasms.

All im saying is, this guy is made of glass and who's to say he even is injured at all? Ever heard of malingering ? He plays baseball, not deathsports and look at his injury history: 3 games, sore ankle. 36 games, sore wrist. 34 games, sore wrist. 1 game, neck hurts. 3 games, sore ankle. 5 games, sore neck, etc.

From 2006-2011 he missed 17 games total. Since coming to Toronto he's missed 85.

That plus his antics on the field at times throwing mini tantrums because the umpire doesn't call it the way he'd like is childish and ridiculous. When in the history of baseball has throwing a tantrum at the plate made an umpire reverse a call? Pretty sure it's never. So he's just acting like a baby and doing no one, particularly himself, any favors in doing so.

Curiously enough, he seems to take these injury timeouts during periods when the team isn't doing well, or when the season is lost anyway. I took to wondering last year how many of those guys were actually injured and how many were just sitting it out because they didn't feel like playing on a losing team to finish out the year ? I'm sure it's not all of them but I'd bet my left leg there was at least one or two.

These guys are worse than soccer players at times. Meanwhile, Chris Pronger tries to play hockey with half a brain...
Click to expand...

For the wrist injury, didn't he try and rehab it, come back too soon and re-aggravate it to the point that he needed surgery?

Sounds like 70 of of the 85 games he missed were for that, do you think he just had surgery for show?
 
Probably hated on these guys a little more than I should have, but bottom line what I'm trying to get at is what the hell is with all of the injuries in baseball that are minor in nature and take forever to recover from? and are frequent on top of that ?

It's just the culture of the sport I suppose. I can't imagine walking into an NFL dressing room and saying "ahh my ankle is a little sore im gonna sit this one out" and trying not to get laughed out of the room for being a pansy. Take some ibuprofen and get on your way, you're not going to die but you should probably be playing like you will. The amount of money you're being paid could build a damn hospital.

Ref Potvin: Sure it makes sense. He was bouncing around from team to team barely getting a job, now he's sitting on a mountain of cash and is considered (rightfully so) one of the leagues elite players. People get to the top and get lazy, it happens all the time.

TMLFan; I would agree with you in your situation and I don't encourage anyone else I work with to go through an injury even a minor one if they don't absolutely need to. It's senseless to risk long term health and I agree. However, sometimes you have to make a sacrifice for the greater good but in Bautista's case, all I would review is how much he's being paid to play a child's game for living as reason enough, minor injury be damned. Bautista at 65% is still better than most of the players in the league.

I'm really, really tired of how much quarter is given to professional athletes when they should just be eternally thankful their way to make a living even exists, and what a grand one at that.
 
The start has been frustrating but I don't understand the conspiracy theories about injuries.. come on, reeeeeeeeeeeeeallly?

It's easy to second guess things already and I have some things I don't like, such as wondering if going with a pitching coach with no experience as a head pitching coach was the best choice for a veteran squad... it's not directly related to the woes but just a question you ask when things aren't going well.
 
Mack,

You've heard of pitchers missing months because of blisters. It seems like such a minor thing, and out of context it is, but what you need to remember is that baseball players are also human beings, and no amount of money is going to make them react differently to pain than any other human. So, while a pitcher can throw a baseball with a blister, he's not going to be able to grip the ball as well, or get the right amount of spin to make the pitch work. He could go out there and play at 65% sure, but if he's throwing meatballs all night how effective is he?

In Bautista's case, he could pick up a bat and stand in the batter's box, but sapped of his power and bat speed, focusing on the pain in his back rather than the ball in the pitcher's hand, knowing that every time he swings could result in making his injury worse, he really going to be more effective than Rajai Davis at 100%?

Baseball is just one of those sports that is very difficult to play when you have a certain type of injury.
 
Mack674 said:
It's just the culture of the sport I suppose. I can't imagine walking into an NFL dressing room and saying "ahh my ankle is a little sore im gonna sit this one out" and trying not to get laughed out of the room for being a pansy.
Click to expand...

And it's precisely that kind of ridiculous macho BS attitude that has led to the terrible and debilitating life of football players after they retire. Maybe you've missed it but ex-football players by the hundreds are now involved in a class action lawsuit against the NFL precisely because the league didn't take proper care of their players and those "minor injuries" that they were "tough enough" to play through and now they're essentially crippled in their 50's and 60's, suffering from dementia and dying at an alarming rate.
 
Nik said:
Mack674 said:
It's just the culture of the sport I suppose. I can't imagine walking into an NFL dressing room and saying "ahh my ankle is a little sore im gonna sit this one out" and trying not to get laughed out of the room for being a pansy.
Click to expand...

And it's precisely that kind of ridiculous macho BS attitude that has led to the terrible and debilitating life of football players after they retire. Maybe you've missed it but ex-football players by the hundreds are now involved in a class action lawsuit against the NFL precisely because the league didn't take proper care of their players and those "minor injuries" that they were "tough enough" to play through and now they're essentially crippled in their 50's and 60's, suffering from dementia and dying at an alarming rate.
Click to expand...

My father works with a former CFL taxi squad player who needs both knees and a hip replaced. He's 54 years old.

Taxi squad! Imagine every day players?
 
Mack674 said:
Ref Potvin: Sure it makes sense. He was bouncing around from team to team barely getting a job, now he's sitting on a mountain of cash and is considered (rightfully so) one of the leagues elite players. People get to the top and get lazy, it happens all the time.
Click to expand...

Can you provide an example of this happening?
 
I haven't been watching the game but why was Dickey pulled after 6? He had a 2 hitter going and only threw 64 pitches...really hope it's a precaution rather than something serious.
 
Beowulf said:
I haven't been watching the game but why was Dickey pulled after 6? He had a 2 hitter going and only threw 64 pitches...really hope it's a precaution rather than something serious.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I just noticed this on the scoreboard too - I listened on the radio on the way home up to after 4 innings. That would be a real kick in the pants to have lost him this early into the season.
 
Jays hold on for a 3-1 win, Janssen with his fifth save. Offense barely got it done (4 hits) - Davis with a big game. Jays used their speed in the first inning (finally) and it got them the important first run.
 
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