2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread

[Kin]

I understand the disappointment that some players weren't moved in time, but those signings already did the job: they kept developing players in the AHL for most of the season. Anything in return at the deadline was always going to just be icing on the cake.

No. I'm going to have to call you on that analogy. There is no "cake" in watching borderline NHLers struggle through a season. Finding warm bodies to act as roster filler is not an accomplishment. 

There was a stretch earlier this season where it legitimately looked like we'd get Vancouver's UFA trade deadline return (zip, zilch, and nada).

What? When did it look like the Leafs wouldn't be able to get anything for Polak? Or that Reimer would go for nothing if they dealt him? 

 

[bustaheims]

I just don't agree with this. Overall that's just them making pretty basic moves. The one year guys they signed in the summer yielded the grand total of a 4th round pick. They've added one top #100 pick in this year's draft.

I think you can separate that from the on a whole so-so moves they made with their own UFA's.

I don't think management or the board are quite as focused on this year's draft as you have been. They've always presented this as a long-term project, and it has to be judged by those metrics.

 

[Kin]

Man, Lou sounds so much more thoughtful in what he's doing for the team than Nonis ever did.

And Nonis did better at last year's deadline than Lou did here.

But press conferences, whew, Nonis was sure no match there.

 

[herman]

[tweet]704416341093015552[/tweet]

 

[Kin]

I don't think management or the board are quite as focused on this year's draft as you have been. They've always presented this as a long-term project, and it has to be judged by those metrics.

It's not an either/or. There are other assets they're going to move next year and in years going on. These are specifically players that had no purpose past "what can you get for them right now". 

 

[bustaheims]

It's not an either/or. There are other assets they're going to move next year and in years going on. These are specifically players that had no purpose past "what can you get for them right now".

Sure, and, they got something for some of them. Sure, if you only focus on the handful of one year contracts they signed this summer, it's disappointing, but, looking at all the pending UFAs? I think they did reasonably well considering the calibre of players being moved.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Man, Lou sounds so much more thoughtful in what he's doing for the team than Nonis ever did.

And Nonis did better at last year's deadline than Lou did here.

But press conferences, whew, Nonis was sure no match there.

That's pretty debatable.  I think both GMs did well at both deadlines and the differences are likely to come down to quality of the players looking to be moved last year versus this year (Franson in career year, Santorelli, Winnik having a very good year).  I thought Nonis got good returns last season at the deadline and I thought the moves made over the last month or so this year have been good.  Both deadlines have been beneficial for the future of the team.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Roster Players/Filler
Brooks Laich
Alex Stalock
Ben Smith
Raffi Torres
Jared Cowen
Milan Michalek
Colin Greening

Prospects
Connor Carrick
Colin Smith
Tobias Lindberg

Picks
2016 2nd
2017 2nd
2017 2nd
2018 2nd
2016 4th
2018 4th (Potentially a 3rd)

I'm happy with that return, I think the group at the top can potentially add a couple more picks next year too.

 

[Kin]

Sure, and, they got something for some of them. Sure, if you only focus on the handful of one year contracts they signed this summer, it's disappointing, but, looking at all the pending UFAs? I think they did reasonably well considering the calibre of players being moved.

If you look at the pending UFA's the only deal I think anyone came away from being particularly impressed with is the Polak deal and that is a deal that's mitigated slightly by the conditions on what they got back.

It's not the end of the world or anything but as someone who's said they did a good job when they did a good job, it's easy to say the opposite. 

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

That's pretty debatable.  I think both GMs did well at both deadlines and the differences are likely to come down to quality of the players looking to be moved last year versus this year (Franson in career year, Santorelli, Winnik having a very good year).  I thought Nonis got good returns last season at the deadline and I thought the moves made over the last month or so this year have been good.  Both deadlines have been beneficial for the future of the team.

Very well put, I agree completely.

 

[Frank E]

A mildly disappointing deadline isn't going to change that. I mean, overall, the Leafs have 5 picks than they started with - including 4 second rounders - and a pair of solid prospects over the last couple weeks, while shedding a serious long-term commitment, and not adding any contracts that go past next season or moving out any young players of value. Overall, that's a win.

I just don't agree with this. Overall that's just them making pretty basic moves. The one year guys they signed in the summer yielded the grand total of a 4th round pick. They've added one top #100 pick in this year's draft.

I think you can separate that from the on a whole so-so moves they made with their own UFA's.

They didn't develop much of anybody into anything marketable.

Could they have gotten pretty close to the same result by icing a cap-floor team?

 

[Kin]

That's pretty debatable.  I think both GMs did well at both deadlines and the differences are likely to come down to quality of the players looking to be moved last year versus this year (Franson in career year, Santorelli, Winnik having a very good year).  I thought Nonis got good returns last season at the deadline and I thought the moves made over the last month or so this year have been good.  Both deadlines have been beneficial for the future of the team.

vs. Reimer in a career year, Parenteau having a good year, other guys serving as decent 4th line filler...

Feelings on the Phaneuf trade aren't really an issue here. They didn't do a good job of identifying deadline bait over the summer. Or if they did, they didn't do a good job playing the market. Is it a big deal long term? Nope. But it's true.

 

[herman]

I understand the disappointment that some players weren't moved in time, but those signings already did the job: they kept developing players in the AHL for most of the season. Anything in return at the deadline was always going to just be icing on the cake.

No. I'm going to have to call you on that analogy. There is no "cake" in watching borderline NHLers struggle through a season. Finding warm bodies to act as roster filler is not an accomplishment. 

The point was to keep a core of Marlies around Nylander and build on that. The NHL team was really just an extended tryout. The cake was the Marlie layer. No one was supposed to ever eat the NHL cruft.

There was a stretch earlier this season where it legitimately looked like we'd get Vancouver's UFA trade deadline return (zip, zilch, and nada).

What? When did it look like the Leafs wouldn't be able to get anything for Polak? Or that Reimer would go for nothing if they dealt him?

There was chatter on this very board. October Polak and Parenteau were definitely a bit disheartening, but they warmed up after Bernier was ousted from the net.

Someone rebuked me in an earlier pre-season thread (can't remember who), saying that I shouldn't expect to get something in return for every UFA filler at the deadline, and that helped me temper my expectations at the beginning of the year.

 

[Kin]

Could they have gotten pretty close to the same result by icing a cap-floor team?

Considering the salary commitments they had that was never an option so I don't see the relevance.

Again, outside of the Polak deal(and I think people are exaggerating how well they did there) I don't think any of the deals they made represented great value. Just choices. You want 50 dollars worth of something or 50 dollars?

 

[Kin]

The point was to keep a core of Marlies around Nylander and build on that. The NHL team was really just an extended tryout. The cake was the Marlie layer. No one was supposed to ever eat the NHL cruft.

Adding deadline bait over the summer was an opportunity. "The point" can't be to maintain what they already had. Inertia isn't a destination. I could have managed maintaining a core of Marlies.

There was chatter on this very board. October Polak and Parenteau were definitely a bit disheartening, but they warmed up after Bernier was ousted from the net.

So because some people on this board thought Polak wouldn't go for anything we should take solace in the fact they were wrong? That was never a reasonable position. People on this board say all sorts of crazy things. Getting nothing for those guys is not a standard for this to be judged against.

 

[Highlander]

Wonder what it would take to pry Maroon from the Ducks. I really like the way the kid playz and he is only 27.

Typically teams at the bottom of the league don't trade for players from playoff teams at the deadline but only because it makes absolutely no sense and is counter productive to what both teams are trying to do.

Hey Nik, have a look at this:  The Edmonton Oilers have acquired Patrick Maroon from the Anaheim Ducks for a prospect and mid-round pick.

What were you saying in you expert opinion??

 

[hockeyfan1]

David Alter  (@Dalter)
It is the first time since 2006 the #Leafs didn't make a trade on the actual deadline day.

 

[Kin]

Hey Nik, have a look at this:  The Edmonton Oilers have acquired Patrick Maroon from the Anaheim Ducks for a prospect and mid-round pick.

What were you saying in you expert opinion??

I said that typically teams that are rebuilding don't trade for other team's 4th liners because it's counter productive to what both organizations are doing.

So you can look at this one of two ways. One, the reality is that the Oilers, despite being bad, aren't really rebuilding because they have a core of Hall and RNH an Draisaitl and McDavid in Nurse in place and they want to be good soon. Adding depth can make sense in that situation. Likewise, the moves the Ducks made today probably bumped Maroon off the 4th line because he's having such a nothing year. Shedding press box filler can make sense for a playoff team.

Alternately, I guess you could stick with "You said it was a stupid move, but how can it be a stupid move if the braintrust running the Edmonton Oilers did it?"

Your choice I suppose.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Again, outside of the Polak deal(and I think people are exaggerating how well they did there) I don't think any of the deals they made represented great value. Just choices. You want 50 dollars worth of something or 50 dollars?

I appreciate you have a differing opinion, but look at the returns league wide today.

The Polak deal is by a country mile the biggest fleecing of the past month.

 

[Kin]

I appreciate you have a differing opinion, but look at the returns league wide today.

I am but, you know, the Russell trade did happen today. Like I said, good value.