2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion

[herman]

Thanks, WIGWAL. It's all semi-evidence-based speculation, but I'm seeing the team embrace the concept that hockey is a strong-link sport and they're dedicating resources to really building up those key guys.

They caught the Calgary Flames on a flat day, but I thought the Leafs played a nice complete (almost boring) game last night.

Some of our defense is still not confident enough (or experienced in the League enough) to gap up on attackers at the line (Zaitsev, Borgman), but they did a good job overall the past two games limiting dangerous chances. Those two in particular are also starting to use their skating to get out of danger more to free up a cleaner first pass.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/markhmasters/status/935968653823971328

Babcock?s doing this for the lols

 

[Frank E]

One thing I like about 2017-2018 Babcock is that he puts the lines in a blender if they're not ahead by the end of the first period.

Don't think he did that as much last year.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Swap Komarov and Nylander and those lines are pretty great.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

One thing I like about 2017-2018 Babcock is that he puts the lines in a blender if they're not ahead by the end of the first period.

Don't think he did that as much last year.

Aside from sometimes switching Nylander and Brown on the Matthews/Kadri lines our top-9 literally didn't change at all from the start of the season to the finish (except for injuries). This is night and day from what we saw last year.

I do think there's probably a happy medium somewhere between 'never changing the lines' and 'changing the lines every week' though.

 

[herman]

One thing I like about 2017-2018 Babcock is that he puts the lines in a blender if they're not ahead by the end of the first period.

Don't think he did that as much last year.

Marleau?s flexibility in being a reliable centre (at the minor cost of a dip in his offence) helps the mix n? match. On the road, Babcock likes to see what the other team is chasing for their line match and changes up accordingly.

He also usually has the centre come on first regardless of who came off the ice on the fly, so he can overlap a few combos here and there to catch lines unaware. E.g. Nylander entry goes deep and he has a good hold, so Matthews jumps over as a sneaky late forward and puts away a clean Nylander saucer pass to the high slot. Can?t really plan for it, but that?s pretty feasible against a trapped 4th line.

 

[caver]

I'd like to see a few shifts with Nylander as a LW with Matthews and Marner when Babcock has his blender going...

 

[Frank E]

One thing I like about 2017-2018 Babcock is that he puts the lines in a blender if they're not ahead by the end of the first period.

Don't think he did that as much last year.

Marleau?s flexibility in being a reliable centre (at the minor cost of a dip in his offence) helps the mix n? match. On the road, Babcock likes to see what the other team is chasing for their line match and changes up accordingly.

He also usually has the centre come on first regardless of who came off the ice on the fly, so he can overlap a few combos here and there to catch lines unaware. E.g. Nylander entry goes deep and he has a good hold, so Matthews jumps over as a sneaky late forward and puts away a clean Nylander saucer pass to the high slot. Can?t really plan for it, but that?s pretty feasible against a trapped 4th line.

The addition of Marleau, and the flexibility to the lineup he provides, is exactly was I was thinking made it more palatable to Babcock to change things on the fly.  So, I agree with you.

I have noticed him try to trap the opposition's 4th line by doing what you described.

To Carlton's point, I think that there will likely be a little more stability moving forward, once they get Nylander back on a more consistent offensive track.

 

[Frank E]

Just to add to the above, I think it's pretty clear at this point that Babcock intentionally hides a Marner or a Nylander on the 4th line.  The media, and the boards, go bananas talking about how it's a punishment for lackluster performance, and they don't deserve to be there because potential, and Babcock will even say that they're just not performing well enough to be in the top 9...but they become sneaky weapons against lousy 4th lines.

I think he does it not as a demotion, but as a tool to give those guys an opportunity against lousier players to reinvigorate, in disguise, to throw off opposing coaches/teams.

I think it's a luxury he enjoys, and uses effectively, given the deep lineup...and even if other teams are on to it, he makes them stretch out their lineups pretty thin.

 

[ZBBM]

I still would like to see Nylander given a go at center for a few games.

 

[herman]

Just to add to the above, I think it's pretty clear at this point that Babcock intentionally hides a Marner or a Nylander on the 4th line.  The media, and the boards, go bananas talking about how it's a punishment for lackluster performance, and they don't deserve to be there because potential, and Babcock will even say that they're just not performing well enough to be in the top 9...but they become sneaky weapons against lousy 4th lines.

I think he does it not as a demotion, but as a tool to give those guys an opportunity against lousier players to reinvigorate, in disguise, to throw off opposing coaches/teams.

I think it's a luxury he enjoys, and uses effectively, given the deep lineup...and even if other teams are on to it, he makes them stretch out their lineups pretty thin.

Yeah, that sounds about right. The media is still caught up with narratives from the way the game used to be played with numbered lines.

I still would like to see Nylander given a go at center for a few games.

I really wanted that the past couple of years too, but I've come around to seeing it this way: they're trying to protect Bozak's market value. Remember how Babcock seemingly walked back his remarks about seeing Nylander as a centre long term? Barring 2+ centres going down with injury, I don't think we'll see Nylander at centre until Bozak is moved or unsigned.

 

[ZBBM]

Just to add to the above, I think it's pretty clear at this point that Babcock intentionally hides a Marner or a Nylander on the 4th line.  The media, and the boards, go bananas talking about how it's a punishment for lackluster performance, and they don't deserve to be there because potential, and Babcock will even say that they're just not performing well enough to be in the top 9...but they become sneaky weapons against lousy 4th lines.

I think he does it not as a demotion, but as a tool to give those guys an opportunity against lousier players to reinvigorate, in disguise, to throw off opposing coaches/teams.

I think it's a luxury he enjoys, and uses effectively, given the deep lineup...and even if other teams are on to it, he makes them stretch out their lineups pretty thin.

Yeah, that sounds about right. The media is still caught up with narratives from the way the game used to be played with numbered lines.

I still would like to see Nylander given a go at center for a few games.

I really wanted that the past couple of years too, but I've come around to seeing it this way: they're trying to protect Bozak's market value. Remember how Babcock seemingly walked back his remarks about seeing Nylander as a centre long term? Barring 2+ centres going down with injury, I don't think we'll see Nylander at centre until Bozak is moved or unsigned.

You're probably right, but that sort of asset-management strategizing aside, just looking at where Nylander would have the most success, I think he may be best suited as a centerman.  It would be nice to see how he fares there.

 

[herman]

You're probably right, but that sort of asset-management strategizing aside, just looking at where Nylander would have the most success, I think he may be best suited as a centerman.  It would be nice to see how he fares there.

I would posit that the reason Babcock preferse Nylander at wing (at the moment) is similar to the reason he prefers Marleau at wing, even though he can be a reliable centre: it's suboptimal for offense. I wish I could find that particular transcript, but I've shared the gist of his rationale here before. But since I don't remember where I wrote it, I'll just do it again.

Babcock prefers Marleau on the wing to take advantage of his speed (in transition). The winger's responsibility on the breakout is to stretch the defense and they are usually the first to enter the zone either to forecheck the dump in, or carrying the play. The centre is usually F3, safety net support for F1/2 if they are stalled up, and also outlet option 1 for the D as he goes back the deepest of the forwards.

I think it's pretty easy to draw a similar conclusion regarding Nylander. He's a zone entry machine for the Leafs and part of the reason is because he's able to receive the first or second breakout pass in stride from D or F3. His speed and puck handling automatically mean defenders are backing off the line and that allows the whole team to set up. Centre/F3 is very often at the bottom of his buttonhook with very little by way of speed and momentum going north when he first touches the puck. Once they get into the zone though, Nylander sort of plays the traditional centre spot as he has the most dangerous long distance shot, usually the fastest player on backchecking, and relatively weakest physical board presence. He still receives lots of puck touches as the primary handler when set up.

 

[ZBBM]

You're probably right, but that sort of asset-management strategizing aside, just looking at where Nylander would have the most success, I think he may be best suited as a centerman.  It would be nice to see how he fares there.

I would posit that the reason Babcock preferse Nylander at wing (at the moment) is similar to the reason he prefers Marleau at wing, even though he can be a reliable centre: it's suboptimal for offense. I wish I could find that particular transcript, but I've shared the gist of his rationale here before. But since I don't remember where I wrote it, I'll just do it again.

Babcock prefers Marleau on the wing to take advantage of his speed (in transition). The winger's responsibility on the breakout is to stretch the defense and they are usually the first to enter the zone either to forecheck the dump in, or carrying the play. The centre is usually F3, safety net support for F1/2 if they are stalled up, and also outlet option 1 for the D as he goes back the deepest of the forwards.

I think it's pretty easy to draw a similar conclusion regarding Nylander. He's a zone entry machine for the Leafs and part of the reason is because he's able to receive the first or second breakout pass in stride from D or F3. His speed and puck handling automatically mean defenders are backing off the line and that allows the whole team to set up. Centre/F3 is very often at the bottom of his buttonhook with very little by way of speed and momentum going north when he first touches the puck. Once they get into the zone though, Nylander sort of plays the traditional centre spot as he has the most dangerous long distance shot, usually the fastest player on backchecking, and relatively weakest physical board presence. He still receives lots of puck touches as the primary handler when set up.

As usual, good analysis.  I guess my response would be, put him with a pure finisher and let that guy (call him a centerman if you wish) slide in to look for a Nylander pass.  Although I guess that's basically what he and Matthews did.

 

[hockeyfan1]

With Nylander at centre, it would give the Leafs two right-handed Cs (Nylander & Bozak), and two left-handed Cs (Matthews & Kadri).  This will also give coach Babcock more options on which line to utilize depending on where the faceoff is set.

Since Nylander as we know is an elite offensive zone entry player, giving him his own line creates optimal opportunities and gets more players in the offensive zone even in faring against the other's 3rd/4th lines and second defense pairings.

In summation, Matthews' line faces off against the other team's top d pairings, Kadri's line gets to go against the usual tougher matchups;  and Nylander's line gives it flexibility (as mentioned above).

Leaf line (sample) combinatoons:

Hyman-Matthews-Marner 
JVR-Kadri-Komarov
        or                                             
Komarov-Kadri-Brown (call it the shutdown line)

Marleau-Nylander-Leivo (excellent offensive line with Leivo making room in the offensive zone)

Soshnikov-Bozak-Brown 

Martin, Moore

 

[Strangelove]

Leo has 3 goals and 0 primary assists through 28 games playing a ton of second line minutes. He gives the puck away constantly, creates nothing for others and misses almost every chance he gets in the offensive end. The leafs have at least 3 better options in that position who are in the press box or AHL. Enough is enough.

Ditto for Polak, more or less.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/937717499789004800

I both love and hate this.

 

[disco]

https://twitter.com/Hamzilla77/status/937478055932477441
This was a neat question, thought I'd share. #1 Center, Power LW, #1 Goalie or All-Star defenseman? I went with the rarest find in today's NHL, and boy would he flourish.

 

[disco]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/937717499789004800

I both love and hate this.

Love: Willy, Mitch and JVR correct..
Hate: Martin/Polak correct..

 

[disco]

https://twitter.com/TheFlintor/status/937699541574438915