2017-2018 NHL Thread
- Thread starter Kin
- Start date
Kin
New member
I do think that there's some truth to the idea that teams(and Montreal specifically) too often see firing a coach or a GM as some sort of panacea that will solve the deeper, more widespread issues with a franchise. I'm sure we could find criticism of Bergevin's moves but I think the two biggest issues(the Subban trade, the general lousiness of the team) are a byproduct not so much of his own failings but of his not really having a mandate to make the sweeping changes that are probably called for. So Molson's logic, for lack of a better word, is really about insulating himself.
There's no better example than the Leafs for the idea that if the fundamental plan isn't solid, it really doesn't matter what guy you throw into the meat grinder.
There's no better example than the Leafs for the idea that if the fundamental plan isn't solid, it really doesn't matter what guy you throw into the meat grinder.
Zee
Active member
CarltonTheBear said:Geoff Molson's explanation for why he's not firing Marc Bergevin is amazing (via @TonyMarinaro):
It basically boils down to: the failure of this season could be attributed to a number of different things, many of which are the GMs responsibility, but there's no reason that should fall onto the shoulders of the GM. Also, 6-8 years ago he was a good assistant GM.
So Molson actually believes Bergevin was responsible for building those Chicago Stanley Cup teams? I know he was involved, but he wasn't in control there.
herman
Well-known member
Zee said:
They would have given up a 5th instead of a 4th if they just didn't play Montoya. Now, draft analytics would say that's basically a flat chance at an NHLer, but it's still a controllable oopsie.
Speaking of controllable oopsies, Montreal has activated Carey Price for tonight's tilt against the surging Panthers. They've got 10 games left and he's coming off an injury riddled season, including this latest, which was a concussion. He'll be backing up Niemi who is making the final stop of a revenge tour against the teams that gave up on him this year and last (Dallas, Pittsburgh, Florida).
Heroic Shrimp
Active member
Biscuits: A Hockey Podcast is a thousand times more entertaining to listen to than Puck Soup.
That is all.
That is all.
Awful news out of Ottawa and from the Karlsson family:
Their child was due to be born next month.
Their child was due to be born next month.
Frank E said:
It sure looks like they will. Especially with New Jersey struggling. Tampa-Florida 1st round match-up would be fun.
Kin
New member
Frank E said:
Well, I think without question dealing Subban came from above Bergevin(or at least he couldn't have dealt Pacioretty/fired coach/whatever else needed to happen). Likewise, I think the option to deal him for futures wasn't something he really could have considered. I'm sure within those confines he still could have maybe made a better deal but not much better.
Likewise, I don't think he could have pulled the trigger on a rebuild until now. Even now I'm guessing that there are a lot of teams looking at the Leafs and thinking that their "rebuild" will take a year or two at the most and with Price under a contract that's bordering on untradeable it wouldn't shock me if that will be his expectation as well.
MacKinnon now has 91 points in 65 games to give him a PPG rate of 1.40, which is the tops in the league (Kucherov is 2nd with 1.32).
Since the full lockout year, only 5 other players have had seasons with a point rate of 1.40 or more in full-ish seasons. Thornton and Jagr did it in 05/06. Crosby did it in 06/07 and then again in the half season of 12/13. Ovi did it in 09/10. And Malkin did it in 11/12.
Since the full lockout year, only 5 other players have had seasons with a point rate of 1.40 or more in full-ish seasons. Thornton and Jagr did it in 05/06. Crosby did it in 06/07 and then again in the half season of 12/13. Ovi did it in 09/10. And Malkin did it in 11/12.
Nik the Trik said:
There's a lot of good candidates but to me MacKinnon is the clear choice. He works for either definition of the Hart trophy that people like to use (best player AND the most valuable one to his team).
Coco-puffs
New member
CarltonTheBear said:
I agree. As much as 10 guys could be in the conversation- but the conversation should end with everyone saying MacKinnon.
Nik the Trik said:
I guess I meant more that he's the best fit for both of those boxes at the same time. Guys like Malkin, Kucherov, and Marchand are all having terrific statistical seasons as well but they also have dynamite supporting casts. And again in terms of points percentage MacKinnon has all of them beat, and the Hart is very often a points-focused award. Like I'm still very comfortable saying that Crosby is a top-2 player in the world but he's 15th in the league in points. He doesn't stand a chance to win the Hart.
Hall might have the highest % of value for his team, but I do think that MacKinnon is right behind him in that regard. It's not like anybody expected Colorado to be a playoff team this season, especially after the Duchene trade. And Hall's slight edge on value doesn't make up for the pretty big point difference between the two for me. New Jersey might still miss the playoffs too, and while it might be dumb that typically disqualifies someone from winning the Hart (sorry, McDavid).
Kin
New member
FWIW I typically think it's more fun to discuss these sorts of things from a who should win rather than who will win based on the hockey writers well known biases/tendencies sort of perspective.
With that said, I think Mackinnon has a very strong case obviously but I don't think it's an open and shut thing. If you're inclined to play that game I think his being in a relatively small western market and a lack of any particular compelling narrative outside of him finally becoming the player he was billed as for years are things that hurt him. Likewise, a great PPG but not winning the scoring title are things that have held back other obvious candidates(Crosby in 2012-2013, for innstance).
This is a league that greatly fetishizes winning and very rarely punishes people for having great supporting casts. On the "Will Win" rankings Mackinnon seems to be in the mix with Kucherov and Malkin but in terms of should? Eh. My pick might be Giroux.
With that said, I think Mackinnon has a very strong case obviously but I don't think it's an open and shut thing. If you're inclined to play that game I think his being in a relatively small western market and a lack of any particular compelling narrative outside of him finally becoming the player he was billed as for years are things that hurt him. Likewise, a great PPG but not winning the scoring title are things that have held back other obvious candidates(Crosby in 2012-2013, for innstance).
This is a league that greatly fetishizes winning and very rarely punishes people for having great supporting casts. On the "Will Win" rankings Mackinnon seems to be in the mix with Kucherov and Malkin but in terms of should? Eh. My pick might be Giroux.