• For users coming over from tmlfans.ca your username will remain the same but you will need to use the password reset feature (check your spam folder) on the login page in order to set your password. If you encounter issues, email Rick couchmanrick@gmail.com

2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion

Trading for anyone with a term beyond this year is not a real possibility, is it? I don't know why names like Keith and Hamilton would even be mentioned as possible fits in Toronto.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
herman said:
Zee said:
Alexander Yelesin, Artem Blazhiyevsky, this is like throwing darts against a dart board.  If they're such good defensive prospects why are they undrafted?  Are we going to keep bringing over Zaitsev's of the world in hopes that eventually someone fixes our defense?

Yeah, why in the world should we be spending our copious resources trying to take free shots at landing the next Mark Giordano, or Ed Belfour, or Yanni Gourde, or Martin St. Louis?

Let's not get too carried away here. They're just looking for cheap depth players.

Are KHL players cheap though?
 
CarltonTheBear said:
Nik the Trik said:
Ok but to some extent you're just shuffling the deck chairs there. Sure, Hamilton is a RHD and so he could be on the top line with Rielly but that almost certainly means you can't bring back Gardiner so our #2 LHD suddenly looks pretty thin and you're not really adding much in the way of stout defensive presence. Throw in the cost to get Hamilton and it's tough not to think they'd be better off just keeping Gardiner.

I'm probably one of Jake's biggest fans on these boards but I'd still probably put Hamilton ahead of him. Even if it's just by a little bit the age difference and handedness make him a decent bit more valuable to me.

With that said, if Babcock ever decided to finally just move Rielly to the right side and pair him with Gardiner or Dermott AND Gardiner signed an extension with an AAV that didn't go higher than $6mil then yeah I'd probably be content not shuffling the chairs as you said. I'm just getting pretty tired of Rielly having to play with a crappy partner.

Agreed, but he doesn't necessarily need someone of Hamilton's level. Maybe a small step down? I know you didn't like the suggestion earlier, but I really think someone like Vatanen, who's a good puck mover, would make a good fit. Rielly still does the heavy-lifting, but Vatanen can at least carry the puck up ice, unlike Hainsey.
 
cabber24 said:
Trading for anyone with a term beyond this year is not a real possibility, is it? I don't know why names like Keith and Hamilton would even be mentioned as possible fits in Toronto.

Why isn't it a possibility?  Depends on the term and the cap hit no?  A guy like Pietrangelo has this year and next year on his cap at $6.5M, you can easily fit that in if you somehow get rid of Zaitsev's contract.  Parayko is an even better option @ $5.5M with 3 more seasons after this one, although the cost to acquire him would be high given the cap hit and his age at 25.  Pietrangelo is more like a rental+1 so I wouldn't imagine the cost to acquire him would be crazy high.
 
Frank E said:
Are KHL players cheap though?

They're stuck in ELCs for at least a year, so yeah. Lindholm, Oz, Rosen, Borgman, and Aaltonen all signed for $925k.

They all had potential bonuses there too but considering their ice-time in depth roles those aren't really attainable.
 
Zee said:
cabber24 said:
Trading for anyone with a term beyond this year is not a real possibility, is it? I don't know why names like Keith and Hamilton would even be mentioned as possible fits in Toronto.

Why isn't it a possibility?  Depends on the term and the cap hit no?  A guy like Pietrangelo has this year and next year on his cap at $6.5M, you can easily fit that in if you somehow get rid of Zaitsev's contract.  Parayko is an even better option @ $5.5M with 3 more seasons after this one, although the cost to acquire him would be high given the cap hit and his age at 25.  Pietrangelo is more like a rental+1 so I wouldn't imagine the cost to acquire him would be crazy high.
https://www.thestar.com/sports/breakaway_blog/2018/12/04/nhl-s--83-million-cap-could-crunch-maple-leafs-in-2019-20.html
Even with a Zaitsev gone it would be tough to bring in a Pietrangelo or Parayko. An expiring Kronwall or Boumeester type might be, unfortunately, more realistic fit.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
I'm probably one of Jake's biggest fans on these boards but I'd still probably put Hamilton ahead of him. Even if it's just by a little bit the age difference and handedness make him a decent bit more valuable to me.

Absolutely. I just don't know if I'd put Hamilton above Gardiner and Kapanen+ whatever.
 
Frank E said:
CarltonTheBear said:
Let's not get too carried away here. They're just looking for cheap depth players.

Are KHL players cheap though?

Under 25, they're constrained to ELCs, so yeah at the worst you're getting cheap depth for the Marlies or they cut bait and go back home. I don't think it's likely we're finding the types of players I previously named with the level of scouting and data available to teams now, but if you want to stop gap the seasons between today's roster and the draft picks developing for the future, this is how you do it without spending assets. Just because we're not likely to find a needle mover doesn't mean it's not worth the effort if even on the off chance one turns out.

Player development is not entirely linear, and for our purposes, we really just need one or two hot seasons before spinning them off either into the aether or assets.

It's been reported that overseas free agents have Toronto high on their wishlists.
 
Zee said:
Sure there are exceptions that fall through the cracks, but I'm specifically looking at the Leafs recent history with Ozhiganov, Zaitsev, Rosen and Borgman coming over, none of which move the needle on the defense. Could we get lucky and eventually find one that makes an impact like the players you mentioned above?  Maybe, but I'm not holding my breath that it'll happen this season or next when the Leafs window is wide open to have a run.

Edit: I added Rosen and Borgman whom I completely forgot about.  While I'm not against taking shots in the dark like this, there's a point where you can't just keep handing out contracts to these guys given the Leafs can only have 50 contracts.  Draft and develop your d-men (Lilejegren and Sandin please hurry up) or make a big trade for someone for immediate help.

""You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott

It's a bet on our development program. It's a hedge against the crapshoot that is drafting.

Do we not currently appreciate having Trevor Moore who was an undrafted development camp invite? Do we win the Calder Cup without Calle Rosen and Mason Marchment and the aforementioned Moore? Do good prospects need more good players to play with at every level?
 
herman said:
Zee said:
Alexander Yelesin, Artem Blazhiyevsky, this is like throwing darts against a dart board.  If they're such good defensive prospects why are they undrafted?  Are we going to keep bringing over Zaitsev's of the world in hopes that eventually someone fixes our defense?

Yeah, why in the world should we be spending our copious resources trying to take free shots at landing the next Mark Giordano, or Ed Belfour, or Yanni Gourde, or Martin St. Louis?

The asset cost is nada so why not?
 
I have a funny feeling that Lilypad will be part of some kind of package to bring in a new piece...Rook or Castle am not sure. I like the sound of a hard hitting Defenseman like Alexander Yelesin if available and they Rock, then why not. Sort of what I was talking about the other day. 
You know Scott Stevens was a regarded a very good D Man with a hard edge....people were wondering and always looking for him....except for Lindros....
 
https://www.nhl.com/news/maple-leafs-defenseman-morgan-rielly-norris-trophy-tracker/c-303650882?tid=277729400

OK.
 
Frank E said:
https://www.nhl.com/news/maple-leafs-defenseman-morgan-rielly-norris-trophy-tracker/c-303650882?tid=277729400

OK.

But it hasn't been just Rielly's offense that's improved this season. He's plus-26, tied for third in the NHL with Pittsburgh Penguins defenseman Brian Dumoulin behind Calgary Flames forward Elias Lindholm (plus-27) and Calgary defenseman Mark Giordano (plus-30), after he had a negative rating each of his first five NHL seasons.

My god... the absolute worst thing about +/- is how every hockey writer acts like it's completely a measure of defensive ability. Here are Rielly's 5-on-5 on-ice goals for and goals against per 60 rates for his entire career:

Season      GF/60  GA/60  GF%
2013-142.542.9246.46
2014-152.022.4844.90
2015-161.912.8740.00
2016-172.293.1542.15
2017-182.642.6452.10
2018-194.672.6264.04

So yeah, Rielly's first positive +/- of his career is pretty much entirely because of his offensive improvement.

All of his different shots against numbers are also at career-worst levels, and this is the first season of his career where he's starting the majority of his shifts in the offensive zone.

Media people, read a book or something.
 
I'm with you Carlton, and I think Nik eluded to it the other day, but even just to my eye test Rielly hasn't yet shown the elite stuff in the defensive zone.  Your math above suggests same.

I get that the Norris isn't usually about the best all around defenseman, it's more about the point producing part of the job.  I guess I'm surprised that given all the new statistical data that the NHL award voting people haven't really starting making the Norris about being a great well rounded defense guy. 
 
The only difference I see in Rielly?s game this season is that he?s more confident attacking low in the zone to cause odd-man advantages as he did in the WHL. Everything else has been largely the same.
 
Frank E said:
I guess I'm surprised that given all the new statistical data that the NHL award voting people haven't really starting making the Norris about being a great well rounded defense guy.

Much the way the Hart hasn't become a well rounded offense guy trophy.
 
https://twitter.com/CapFriendly/status/1083395903082426368

CapFriendly knows which market's clicks keeps the lights on.

And I know where to go for a laugh:
https://www.capfriendly.com/staff/peter-chiarelli/trades
 
https://twitter.com/billius27/status/1083113155042201600

This shows pretty clearly how reliant we've been on Andersen (and how he has risen to the challenge).

The Leafs, despite what we see/choose to remember, haven't been terribad defensively in front of Andersen (above league average, really), but he has certainly elevated what the team has done in front of them.
 

About Us

This website is NOT associated with the Toronto Maple Leafs or the NHL.


It is operated by Rick Couchman and Jeff Lewis.
Back
Top