2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion

[CatScratchFever]

Another meltdown, and a few thoughts/questions.

Do the Leafs need psychological coaching? They seem to lack the killer instinct.

What's up with Matthews? He looked like he was prepared to be the team leader last year, but this year not so much. Is he afraid of another injury? Maybe he needs Hyman back on his line.

Nylander, meh. Yeah the "new NHL" favours skill but come playoff time you need a lot more physicality.

Where's the grit going to come from?

 

[Zee]

Another meltdown, and a few thoughts/questions.

Do the Leafs need psychological coaching? They seem to lack the killer instinct.

What's up with Matthews? He looked like he was prepared to be the team leader last year, but this year not so much. Is he afraid of another injury? Maybe he needs Hyman back on his line.

Nylander, meh. Yeah the "new NHL" favours skill but come playoff time you need a lot more physicality.

Where's the grit going to come from?

With regards to the Tampa game, even though the players will never admit it, they were depleted and sick last night.  Mirtle in the Athletic article today specifically mentions the Leafs as a team are really sick, and the linesman that had to leave the game was also due to the flu, so let's keep things in perspective here.  You can't go against the top team in the league missing 2 dmen AND having a bunch of players battling the flu.

 

[Bullfrog]

I don't think dismissing 22 year olds who haven't shown significant AHL growth is about any sort of lack of patience, it's about being realistic about historical development patterns for players at various ages. Keeping those guys around might save minimal amounts on the cap vs. getting the NHL guys who can be signed for a few hundred thousand over the minimum but the idea that it would lead to significant difference for the team in terms of strength doesn't wash.

I totally agree with this. The only ones who are really working out are Johnsson and Kapanen, both of whom had good careers prior to joining the Leafs. Johnsson was an SHL rookie of the year, lead his team in goals, and was outstanding in the AHL. Kapanen was a 1st rounder who scored at a point-per-game pace in two consecutive AHL seasons.

I think there's an impact of having a lot of resources to put towards development, but it's not going to turn a middling AHLer into a full-time NHLer. I don't think there's anything particularly magical about the Leafs development system.

 

[Highlander]

Another meltdown, and a few thoughts/questions.

Do the Leafs need psychological coaching? They seem to lack the killer instinct.

What's up with Matthews? He looked like he was prepared to be the team leader last year, but this year not so much. Is he afraid of another injury? Maybe he needs Hyman back on his line.

Nylander, meh. Yeah the "new NHL" favours skill but come playoff time you need a lot more physicality.

Where's the grit going to come from?

With regards to the Tampa game, even though the players will never admit it, they were depleted and sick last night.  Mirtle in the Athletic article today specifically mentions the Leafs as a team are really sick, and the linesman that had to leave the game was also due to the flu, so let's keep things in perspective here.  You can't go against the top team in the league missing 2 dmen AND having a bunch of players battling the flu.

Mirtle has been traveling the west coast trip with the Leafs and I think they referred to this flu as the Edmonton Plague, those are strong words. He has it as well and is into day 9 with the antiboitics.  More or less says although they should not have quite in the 3rd, that the team is indeed riddled with this bad bug.  I think  we have to judge them more on our previous win against the Bolts and the next game/win against them

 

[herman]

I don't think dismissing 22 year olds who haven't shown significant AHL growth is about any sort of lack of patience, it's about being realistic about historical development patterns for players at various ages. Keeping those guys around might save minimal amounts on the cap vs. getting the NHL guys who can be signed for a few hundred thousand over the minimum but the idea that it would lead to significant difference for the team in terms of strength doesn't wash.

I totally agree with this. The only ones who are really working out are Johnsson and Kapanen, both of whom had good careers prior to joining the Leafs. Johnsson was an SHL rookie of the year, lead his team in goals, and was outstanding in the AHL. Kapanen was a 1st rounder who scored at a point-per-game pace in two consecutive AHL seasons.

I think there's an impact of having a lot of resources to put towards development, but it's not going to turn a middling AHLer into a full-time NHLer. I don't think there's anything particularly magical about the Leafs development system.

I think the point I was meandering towards was redefining what we mean by 'making it' or 'working out', and for me, that means accepting that older prospect with a slightly above replacement ceiling and shorter track peaking only for 2-3 years is not a failure. The trick is to line up their specific development curves with where they might have a place on our team. As our core develops, the threshold for what qualifies for our team-specific replacement level climbs too.

 

[ZBBM]

I think the hard reality is that both Johnsson and Kapanen have to be traded for defense.  I hate hate hate to see them go but they are the pieces that could potentially get us what we need.  Then you hope Liljegren and Sandin advance quickly.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I think the hard reality is that both Johnsson and Kapanen have to be traded for defense.  I hate hate hate to see them go but they are the pieces that could potentially get us what we need.  Then you hope Liljegren and Sandin advance quickly.

Next year I think you will see Rosen, Muzz, Rielly, Dermott, Liljegren. Not sure if they can dump Zaitsev or not. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sandin at some point either. Apparently they've already thought about bringing him up this year.

 

[ZBBM]

I think the hard reality is that both Johnsson and Kapanen have to be traded for defense.  I hate hate hate to see them go but they are the pieces that could potentially get us what we need.  Then you hope Liljegren and Sandin advance quickly.

Next year I think you will see Rosen, Muzz, Rielly, Dermott, Liljegren. Not sure if they can dump Zaitsev or not. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sandin at some point either. Apparently they've already thought about bringing him up this year.

Something like this, yeah, it's likely.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/iyer_prashanth/status/1106021379361644545
https://twitter.com/iyer_prashanth/status/1106170895360581632

This graph tracks GDT despair

 

[herman]

https://www.si.com/nhl/2019/03/12/maple-leafs-stanley-cup-drought-shanahan-tavares-dubas

TIL Shanahan went to the MLSE Board to authorize paying Larry Hillman what was owed to him (plus interest) when Imlach stiffed him for a contract holdout by fining him $100 per day.

 

[Big Daddy]

So the fine was 2500 in 1967.  TML repaid that to him with interest.  What the heck kind of money does that turn into? Probably not as much as I'm expecting.

 

[Coco-puffs]

So the fine was 2500 in 1967.  TML repaid that to him with interest.  What the heck kind of money does that turn into? Probably not as much as I'm expecting.

Maybe if it included inflation as well, then we'd be talking.

 

[Highlander]

https://www.si.com/nhl/2019/03/12/maple-leafs-stanley-cup-drought-shanahan-tavares-dubas

TIL Shanahan went to the MLSE Board to authorize paying Larry Hillman what was owed to him (plus interest) when Imlach stiffed him for a contract holdout by fining him $100 per day.

Thanks for sharing that Herman, long read, well worth it, now just get us 2 new D men that can play the game.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Thanks for sharing that Herman, long read, well worth it, now just get us 2 new D men that can play the game.

Or get a better game plan in place for them to succeed. A lot of media are taking a run at Babs and his system and how it doesn't work. Apparently the players are doing what's asked of them. I'm not a huge Babs basher. My peeve with him is his use of the 4th line after goals for and against or after pps. Anyway here's a link to what Button had to say last night.
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/game/chicago-blackhawks-toronto-maple-leafs-20190313

 

[Bender]

I think the hard reality is that both Johnsson and Kapanen have to be traded for defense.  I hate hate hate to see them go but they are the pieces that could potentially get us what we need.  Then you hope Liljegren and Sandin advance quickly.

I don't think defensemen are the problem, it's a commitment to playing team defense. Nik Lidstrom in his prime would be nice but if he's the only one playing a sound defensive game then it doesn't matter.

 

[Bender]

Thanks for sharing that Herman, long read, well worth it, now just get us 2 new D men that can play the game.

Or get a better game plan in place for them to succeed. A lot of media are taking a run at Babs and his system and how it doesn't work. Apparently the players are doing what's asked of them. I'm not a huge Babs basher. My peeve with him is his use of the 4th line after goals for and against or after pps. Anyway here's a link to what Button had to say last night.
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/game/chicago-blackhawks-toronto-maple-leafs-20190313

This has to be systems related. The players aren't stupid. Give them a good system and they'll execute.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Thanks for sharing that Herman, long read, well worth it, now just get us 2 new D men that can play the game.

Or get a better game plan in place for them to succeed. A lot of media are taking a run at Babs and his system and how it doesn't work. Apparently the players are doing what's asked of them. I'm not a huge Babs basher. My peeve with him is his use of the 4th line after goals for and against or after pps. Anyway here's a link to what Button had to say last night.
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/game/chicago-blackhawks-toronto-maple-leafs-20190313

This has to be systems related. The players aren't stupid. Give them a good system and they'll execute.

My thoughts also. It's a constant sight seeing our D men chasing guys out to the blueline. I don't get that. There are also so many times they are flat out, out of position and not by a little bit. These guys aren't stupid regardless of talent. If the game plan is flawed it doesn't matter who's playing D. Isn't it strange that the more Muzz is getting used to the system, the worse he's looked? This guy was a hirse an arguably LA's best D man. Did he get stupid all of a sudden? Don't think so. Def makes me go hmmmm.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Thanks for sharing that Herman, long read, well worth it, now just get us 2 new D men that can play the game.

Or get a better game plan in place for them to succeed. A lot of media are taking a run at Babs and his system and how it doesn't work. Apparently the players are doing what's asked of them. I'm not a huge Babs basher. My peeve with him is his use of the 4th line after goals for and against or after pps. Anyway here's a link to what Button had to say last night.
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/game/chicago-blackhawks-toronto-maple-leafs-20190313

This has to be systems related. The players aren't stupid. Give them a good system and they'll execute.

My thoughts also. It's a constant sight seeing our D men chasing guys out to the blueline. I don't get that. There are also so many times they are flat out, out of position and not by a little bit. These guys aren't stupid regardless of talent. If the game plan is flawed it doesn't matter who's playing D. Isn't it strange that the more Muzz is getting used to the system, the worse he's looked? This guy was a hirse an arguably LA's best D man. Did he get stupid all of a sudden? Don't think so. Def makes me go hmmmm.

Is the system flawed on account of the fact that we do not have our full D back there, or, is the system flawed because we don?t have the proper D to begin with?

That goal by Saad (where he stood all alone on Andersen) obviously illustrates the problem.  What or why would the Leaf players be all on one side at the risk of leaving an opponent in front of their ?keeper?  Because they?re not interpretatiing the system proplerly or not executing it efficiently.

I?d blame Babcock only in part such as the usage of the 4th line, and for not placing Sparks in from the get go.  If that shows Babcock?s flaw, then it speaks to the Leafs weakness.

They both can do better than that.

 

[OrangeBlack]

Since I was on the board for the GDT, thought I'd stop by here with a question.  What's the Leafs plans on fitting Marner's payday in under the cap.  Are they looking to move anyone this summer?    I would think that Marner & Point (Tampa) are offer sheet candidates.

I could see the Flyers trying to move Gostisbehere.....they need to tighten up the D, & also add a top 6 type forward.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Since I was on the board for the GDT, thought I'd stop by here with a question.  What's the Leafs plans on fitting Marner's payday in under the cap.  Are they looking to move anyone this summer?    I would think that Marner & Point (Tampa) are offer sheet candidates.

I could see the Flyers trying to move Gostisbehere.....they need to tighten up the D, & also add a top 6 type forward.

They'll likely just go cheap on the bottom pair D and 4th line, and make it work. Although, you should really consider trading Gostisbehere for our Nikita Zaitsev... he'd be a huge upgrade for you guys. We'll take gritty as well if it will help with the money.