2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion

[Chris]

Anyone catch Babcock throwing shade at Dubas in his interview today? Ouch.

What was said?

?There?s other teams that have done a better job when different players are out than we have in keeping on going,? Mike Babcock said after practice on Monday, referencing the organization?s run of injuries on the blueline, which has taken out Gardiner, Dermott, Rosen and Borgman. ?That just tells you what state we?re at. You just gotta keep adding better players.?

I don't know, two years ago we had Marincin as a depth guy called into action versus WSH in the playoffs and he was awful. We're in the exact same boat 2 years later. Yes, we have prospects in the system but they take a lot of time to develop on the blueline. The Leafs have done absolutely nothing to improve their immediate defensive woes. Hainsey for Hunwick, Dermott for Polak...

Muzzin...how would the defense look right now if we hadn't gotten him?

People seem to like to rag on Hainsey, but imagine where this team might be this season if he wasn't here and we had to play
someone like Marincin full time. Hainsey ain't a problem, his (over) use by Babcock might be.

Dermott >> Polak now and forever, though I'd still like to see a Leaf defender willing to knock some guys around when they're
in the crease, on top of Andersen, etc.

 

[Highlander]

Can someone explain to me why in an article about Marleau in the Athletic what this means:  "In this hypothetical scenario, Toronto could look to offload Marleau?s cap hit (paying him zero actual dollars) to a team looking to hit the cap floor".

What does hitting the cap floor mean and how would taking on Marleau help them? 

 

[lamajama]

Can someone explain to me why in an article about Marleau in the Athletic what this means:  "In this hypothetical scenario, Toronto could look to offload Marleau?s cap hit (paying him zero actual dollars) to a team looking to hit the cap floor".

What does hitting the cap floor mean and how would taking on Marleau help them?

Basement teams like Ottawa and Phoenix for years have to hit a minimum team salary.

So Marleau's cap hit is $6 or 6.25 (too lazy to look up) but Leafs are paying him only $1m in actual dollars so Ottawa as an example
could trade for Marleau and have a cap hit of $6.25 but only pay him actual cash of $1m.

But Marleau has, you know, a full no move clause so would have to approve the trade.

 

[azzurri63]

Anyone catch Babcock throwing shade at Dubas in his interview today? Ouch.

What was said?

?There?s other teams that have done a better job when different players are out than we have in keeping on going,? Mike Babcock said after practice on Monday, referencing the organization?s run of injuries on the blueline, which has taken out Gardiner, Dermott, Rosen and Borgman. ?That just tells you what state we?re at. You just gotta keep adding better players.?

I didn't mind the way Borgman played in the short stint he was with us last year.
Better than Maricin and Holl in my mind and the kid at least adds some physicality to the lineup.
He didn't actual look awful. So my question is what happened to him? Why no call up?
Rosen has been the best Marlie defender from what I've read and you're telling me he couldn't help before the injury?
Why we see Marincin up is beyond me can't figure what they see in him.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I didn't mind the way Borgman played in the short stint he was with us last year.
Better than Maricin and Holl in my mind and the kid at least adds some physicality to the lineup.
He didn't actual look awful. So my question is what happened to him? Why no call up?

He's injured.

Rosen has been the best Marlie defender from what I've read and you're telling me he couldn't help before the injury?

The Leafs had Rielly-Gardiner-Dermott on the left side before the injuries, there wasn't a place for him in the line-up so no he couldn't really help.

Why we see Marincin up is beyond me can't figure what they see in him.

Because Rosen and Borgman and Gardiner and Dermott are injured.

 

[bustaheims]

edit: And I'd say if this happened earlier in the season, or if wins were a more pressing concern right now, then the team would probably have adjusted their plans for Sandin or Liljegren and brought one of them up. But as things stand they obviously think it's better to not rush them and just power through this last stretch before at least Dermott returns.

Maybe, but I suspect the suspicion and subsequent announcement of expansion to Seattle basically killed any chance either of them would have been brought up for anything other than a permanent spot. If they get into games this season, they'll need to be protected in the expansion draft. If they don't, they won't.

 

[Bender]

I didn't mind the way Borgman played in the short stint he was with us last year.
Better than Maricin and Holl in my mind and the kid at least adds some physicality to the lineup.
He didn't actual look awful. So my question is what happened to him? Why no call up?

He's injured.

Rosen has been the best Marlie defender from what I've read and you're telling me he couldn't help before the injury?

The Leafs had Rielly-Gardiner-Dermott on the left side before the injuries, there wasn't a place for him in the line-up so no he couldn't really help.

Why we see Marincin up is beyond me can't figure what they see in him.

Because Rosen and Borgman and Gardiner and Dermott are injured.

Stupid logic!

 

[Guilt Trip]

I didn't mind the way Borgman played in the short stint he was with us last year.
Better than Maricin and Holl in my mind and the kid at least adds some physicality to the lineup.
He didn't actual look awful. So my question is what happened to him? Why no call up?

He's injured.

Rosen has been the best Marlie defender from what I've read and you're telling me he couldn't help before the injury?

The Leafs had Rielly-Gardiner-Dermott on the left side before the injuries, there wasn't a place for him in the line-up so no he couldn't really help.

Why we see Marincin up is beyond me can't figure what they see in him.

Because Rosen and Borgman and Gardiner and Dermott are injured.

and Liljegren, Sandin aren't quite ready. Like someone mentioned if the Leafs were battling for a spot, one of them would be up.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Maybe, but I suspect the suspicion and subsequent announcement of expansion to Seattle basically killed any chance either of them would have been brought up for anything other than a permanent spot. If they get into games this season, they'll need to be protected in the expansion draft. If they don't, they won't.

Oh right. For some reason I keep forgetting if the expansion draft is 1 or 2 more full seasons away. You're right, they almost certainly won't be brought up for that reason.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Stupid logic!

Excluding Sandin/Liljegren in this conversation, Marincin is 6th on the teams LD depth chart and 10th overall. I don't think that his game is where it was a couple of years ago when I liked him more but I'd still hazard to guess that Marincin is better than most teams #10 defenceman.

edit: oops, I forgot Muzzin. He's the organizations 7th best LD and 11th best defenceman. Seriously I'd be stunned if another team out there had a defenceman with close to 200 NHL games under his belt as their 11D.

 

[ZBBM]

Maybe, but I suspect the suspicion and subsequent announcement of expansion to Seattle basically killed any chance either of them would have been brought up for anything other than a permanent spot. If they get into games this season, they'll need to be protected in the expansion draft. If they don't, they won't.

Oh right. For some reason I keep forgetting if the expansion draft is 1 or 2 more full seasons away. You're right, they almost certainly won't be brought up for that reason.

Yeah, I've wondered sometimes about maybe bringing up Liljegren (never Sandin, he needs a whole year in the AHL) but now that busta points this out there's no way.  We can only hope Rosen and/or Borgman will be available soon.

 

[ZBBM]

Stupid logic!

Excluding Sandin/Liljegren in this conversation, Marincin is 6th on the teams LD depth chart and 10th overall. I don't think that his game is where it was a couple of years ago when I liked him more but I'd still hazard to guess that Marincin is better than most teams #10 defenceman.

I've been a Marty supporter and I do like that he's not afraid to rush the puck and shoot it (he's made some good plays that way) but that's not what the Leafs need out of him, and (like a lot of our D) he's been pretty awful in our own end.  He's kind of a lefthanded Zaitsev: his best skills are offensive but they're not good enough to outweigh his defensive shortcomings.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I've been a Marty supporter and I do like that he's not afraid to rush the puck and shoot it (he's made some good plays that way) but that's not what the Leafs need out of him, and (like a lot of our D) he's been pretty awful in our own end.  He's kind of a lefthanded Zaitsev: his best skills are offensive but they're not good enough to outweigh his defensive shortcomings.

The weird thing about Marincin for me is that I think he's gotten better offensively but worse defensively the past 2 seasons. Like you said this season he's pretty frequently carried the puck through the neutral zone and had some accurate/strong shots from the point and that just wasn't really a part of his game before. But he's also getting beat on zone entries a lot and that used to be his bread and butter.

 

[cabber24]

I don't know, two years ago we had Marincin as a depth guy called into action versus WSH in the playoffs and he was awful. We're in the exact same boat 2 years later. Yes, we have prospects in the system but they take a lot of time to develop on the blueline. The Leafs have done absolutely nothing to improve their immediate defensive woes. Hainsey for Hunwick, Dermott for Polak...

Even aside from the bolded, as much as I think Hainsey is overplayed he's an upgrade over Hunwick. They also you know acquired Muzzin. And brought in improved depth in the form of Rosen and Borgman, who again are both probably ahead of Marincin on the depth chart.

Haha, I totally overlooked Muzzin.

I guess I am still hung up with Marincin still sucking on our roster playing minutes two years later.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

?There?s other teams that have done a better job when different players are out than we have in keeping on going,? Mike Babcock said after practice on Monday, referencing the organization?s run of injuries on the blueline, which has taken out Gardiner, Dermott, Rosen and Borgman. ?That just tells you what state we?re at. You just gotta keep adding better players.?

It was a weird quote for two reasons. 1) Just the other day Babcock also said that they cannot use injuries as an excuse for their struggles. 2) I don't think it's really fair to say the organization lacks depth on defence. The Leafs are missing 2 of their 3 puck-moving defencemen. The Marlies are missing the top-2 candidates to replace a puck-moving defenceman on the Leafs. And the top-2 Marlies candidates after that are both in the early stages of their careers and the organization doesn't want to rush them in any way. So that's 6 of the top 7 puck-moving defencemen in the organization that aren't available to the Leafs right now.

edit: And I'd say if this happened earlier in the season, or if wins were a more pressing concern right now, then the team would probably have adjusted their plans for Sandin or Liljegren and brought one of them up. But as things stand they obviously think it's better to not rush them and just power through this last stretch before at least Dermott returns.

I don't think he's using it as an excuse necessarily. I take it as him saying, "other teams have had injuries and didn't crap the bed like we just did"....And really, him saying that his number 11 defensemen isn't good enough, isn't a dig at management.

 

[Highlander]

agreed, I don't take it as a dig at management at all. Let's face it Mark Hunter may not have been the best potential guy to run an NHL draft.  Look at choosing Korshkov or DeBrincat! How many of his D choices are still in the mix?  Rasanen and Gordeev both who may never see a NHL game although I hope and pray different.
Then Dubas runs us Sandin, Mac Hollowel and this new kid Duzak who seems to have a real upside.  I guess Lilypad may have been a Hunter pick but the big men he has favoured so far have not panned out.

 

[herman]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-can-maple-leafs-marriage-coach-gm-last/

DRAMAAAAAAAAA

BUT ALSO BEHBEH WILLY NYLANDER

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Last season the Leafs had 9 games go to the shootout. 8 games left this season and they still haven't had one.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Last season the Leafs had 9 games go to the shootout. 8 games left this season and they still haven't had one.

Good because shootouts suck. The NHL needs to get rid of it and play 3 on 3 till someone wins. Way more entertaining.

 

[Zee]

Last season the Leafs had 9 games go to the shootout. 8 games left this season and they still haven't had one.

You've doomed the Leafs to have the final 8 games all go to shootout.