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2020-2021 NHL Thread

It certainly is a good counterpoint to all of the "Patrick Marleau is better than Gretzky" arguments people always make.
 
It?s sad that Marleau?s accomplishment is being diminished by many for both passing whom he passed and suggesting he had no business holding on in the league just to achieve the record.
 
Peter D. said:
It?s sad that Marleau?s accomplishment is being diminished by many for both passing whom he passed and suggesting he had no business holding on in the league just to achieve the record.

I agree 100%. He's nowhere near what he previously was but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a spot on teams. No, he doesn't belong on the Leafs at $6 million. But he did pot 10 goals last year in 64 games. That's just under 15 goals in an 82 game season.
 
OldTimeHockey said:
I agree 100%. He's nowhere near what he previously was but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a spot on teams. No, he doesn't belong on the Leafs at $6 million. But he did pot 10 goals last year in 64 games. That's just under 15 goals in an 82 game season.

He also produced at a reasonable rate for a player on a league minimum contract last season. This season, not so much, but signing him was still a reasonable value bet for San Jose.

Also, it's not all on him for sticking around. San Jose and the rest of the league could have easily not signed him.
 
Also, if it wasn't for a pair of lockouts, he would have broken the record in his last year as a Leaf - when he was still producing near a top 6 rate and just starting to really show signs of a significant decline..
 
He might have had to play longer than he should have to chase this record, but if Ovi needed to play until he's 45 years old when all he can do is camp out on his PP spot to break Gretzky's goal scoring record I'd still see it as a pretty groundbreaking achievement.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
He might have had to play longer than he should have to chase this record, but if Ovi needed to play until he's 45 years old when all he can do is camp out on his PP spot to break Gretzky's goal scoring record I'd still see it as a pretty groundbreaking achievement.

Also, Howe played his final 80 NHL games when he was in his 50s. Let's not pretend like he didn't stick around past his best before date. Had he not had that comeback, both Francis and Messier would have broken his record in 2004.
 
bustaheims said:
OldTimeHockey said:
I agree 100%. He's nowhere near what he previously was but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a spot on teams. No, he doesn't belong on the Leafs at $6 million. But he did pot 10 goals last year in 64 games. That's just under 15 goals in an 82 game season.

He also produced at a reasonable rate for a player on a league minimum contract last season. This season, not so much, but signing him was still a reasonable value bet for San Jose.

Also, it's not all on him for sticking around. San Jose and the rest of the league could have easily not signed him.

I agree with all this.

And it's not just that.  It's a testament to his durability.  The game tomorrow will be his 900th consecutive game, which in and of itself is an incredible feat, let alone for someone his age.  He's missed no more than 6 games in a season.  He is averaging over 13 minutes a game as a 41 year old; he was averaging over 15 minutes in the previous thee seasons.  Sure, his production isn't there anymore, but that's no longer what's expected of him, and it's sure not like he is not being used -- they're not just throwing him out there for two shifts to bank another game to the record.

Further to all that, he's avoided injury.  He could have tweaked his groin, caught a rut twisting his knee, taken a hit that left him woozie, etc. *knock on wood*

Sure, seeing Marleau alongside Howe may seem weird.  But let's applaud a guy who's forged a very good career for being able to stamp his name forever beside one of the greatest of all-time than crap on him and go as far as suggesting he should have stopped a game short as to not break the record.

He continues to love the game -- as evidenced by his interview after last night's game -- and he's obviously well respected by his teammates and opponents around the league.  May he continue playing as long as his body lets him and there is a spot on a team to utilize him.

Congrats Patrick.
 
bustaheims said:
CarltonTheBear said:
He might have had to play longer than he should have to chase this record, but if Ovi needed to play until he's 45 years old when all he can do is camp out on his PP spot to break Gretzky's goal scoring record I'd still see it as a pretty groundbreaking achievement.

Also, Howe played his final 80 NHL games when he was in his 50s. Let's not pretend like he didn't stick around past his best before date. Had he not had that comeback, both Francis and Messier would have broken his record in 2004.

Howe played the bulk of his career when the NHL had 70 or fewer games in a season, only 60 for his first 4 years. If they were all 82 game seasons, no one would be close.

And before those final 80 games, Howe also had 2 full years off before 6 WHA seasons (419 games).
 
Deebo said:
bustaheims said:
CarltonTheBear said:
He might have had to play longer than he should have to chase this record, but if Ovi needed to play until he's 45 years old when all he can do is camp out on his PP spot to break Gretzky's goal scoring record I'd still see it as a pretty groundbreaking achievement.

Also, Howe played his final 80 NHL games when he was in his 50s. Let's not pretend like he didn't stick around past his best before date. Had he not had that comeback, both Francis and Messier would have broken his record in 2004.

Howe played the bulk of his career when the NHL had 70 or fewer games in a season, only 60 for his first 4 years. If they were all 82 game seasons, no one would be close.

And before those final 80 games, Howe also had 2 full years off before 6 WHA seasons (419 games).

That's an assumption that he would have lasted as many years playing 82 game seasons.
 
bustaheims said:
CarltonTheBear said:
He might have had to play longer than he should have to chase this record, but if Ovi needed to play until he's 45 years old when all he can do is camp out on his PP spot to break Gretzky's goal scoring record I'd still see it as a pretty groundbreaking achievement.

Also, Howe played his final 80 NHL games when he was in his 50s. Let's not pretend like he didn't stick around past his best before date. Had he not had that comeback, both Francis and Messier would have broken his record in 2004.
Uh... Check out his stats. For a guy his age they're kind of insane. 103pts as a 40yr old? Even 41 pts as anyone past 45 is pretty crazy.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=2378
 
Heroic Shrimp said:
https://twitter.com/simmonssteve/status/1384225533949464594

Simmons is worse at Twitter than one could think humanly possible.

https://twitter.com/C_Squared709/status/1384241872525168641?s=20
 
It's perfectly ok to have a discussion about whether you think Patrick Marleau is still a good player.  It's perfectly ok to have a discussion on whether he is worthy of a hall of fame induction.  It's really not a great time to have that debate on the day he sets a record.  It's tacky and you can cool your jets for 30 seconds and appreciate that he has had one hell of career.  There is a reason there have only been 348 players who have played 1000 games and that is entirely because you have to be really good and really durable to do it.  There are 21 players who played 1500 games. 

Give him his due.  That his colleagues don't call guys like Simmons out when they make horrible takes like this looks bad on the sports writers.
 
L K said:
Give him his due.  That his colleagues don't call guys like Simmons out when they make horrible takes like this looks bad on the sports writers.

To be fair, I only saw and knew about Simmons' tweet because both hockey writers Greg Wyshinski and Ryan Lambert brought mocking attention to it.
 
I feel like the thing that's being missed is that, as I sort of alluded to earlier, nobody serious thinks of "Games Played" as an especially meaningful record. It's a testament to durability and competitiveness and all that stuff but I'm a big time sports fan and I don't know if I could tell you off-hand who is the all time leader in Games Played in Basketball, Baseball or Football(I'd guess Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Pete Rose and Tom Brady or Drew Brees)*. The Leafs leader in games played is George Armstrong and I know that because I'd look it up as a kid and be like "Who was George Armstrong?".

Marleau broke it and my thought was "Oh, that's nice". Some people wrote some nice articles about him. For someone like Simmons to feel the need to rain on that tiny, small parade shows just what a creep he is.

*I was 1 for 3.
 
https://twitter.com/PR_NHL/status/1384618235182522369

Don't want to go too far out on that branch now, NHL.
 

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