2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

The closest comparable to 2012 is probably 1996 - which had Chara, but not much else in terms of superstars. A lot of good players, but no one else who would be considered among the best at their position in their time.

I often wonder if there are reasons for bad draft classes or if it's just random chance. Like, I remember someone floating the idea that the generally mediocre drafts for Canadian players between '94 and 2000 might have to do with the Blue Jays coming to Canada and more kids playing Baseball instead of hockey but that feels flimsy.

The late 70's and early 80's were a mess in financial terms.  It was a roller coaster for many families. Maybe due to all the economic uncertainty people weren't putting their kids in hockey.   

 

[OldTimeHockey]

The closest comparable to 2012 is probably 1996 - which had Chara, but not much else in terms of superstars. A lot of good players, but no one else who would be considered among the best at their position in their time.

I often wonder if there are reasons for bad draft classes or if it's just random chance. Like, I remember someone floating the idea that the generally mediocre drafts for Canadian players between '94 and 2000 might have to do with the Blue Jays coming to Canada and more kids playing Baseball instead of hockey but that feels flimsy.

The late 70's and early 80's were a mess in financial terms.  It was a roller coaster for many families. Maybe due to all the economic uncertainty people weren't putting their kids in hockey. 

I grew up playing hockey in the 80's. I felt like their were more kids playing back then(at least percentage wise) than there are now. I looked for data but can't find it. I'm sure it's out there though.

 

[bustaheims]

I often wonder if there are reasons for bad draft classes or if it's just random chance. Like, I remember someone floating the idea that the generally mediocre drafts for Canadian players between '94 and 2000 might have to do with the Blue Jays coming to Canada and more kids playing Baseball instead of hockey but that feels flimsy.

It does feel like a flimsy excuse. It may had had some impact, but not enough to dilute the talent pool that much. I suspect Rob might on to something, though. The economic downturn in the late 80s and early 90s could definitely have had an impact on drafts in the mid-to-late 90s and early 2000s. Hockey can be a very expensive sport to get into, and for families facing financial difficulties, if it wasn't abundantly clear that your kid had a future in the NHL, you weren't spending that kind of cash on an extra-curricular activity unless you absolutely had to. It tracks with my experience, as well. I was part of that generation, and very very few people I knew played hockey in any sort of organized fashion (though, one guy I knew growing up ended up being a draft bust, and is the only player from the first round in 1998 to not play an NHL game).

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/brett1ee/status/1372683383986266113
This was a fun watch

This one was more fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXPQtqe5jpE

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I often wonder if there are reasons for bad draft classes or if it's just random chance. Like, I remember someone floating the idea that the generally mediocre drafts for Canadian players between '94 and 2000 might have to do with the Blue Jays coming to Canada and more kids playing Baseball instead of hockey but that feels flimsy.

It does feel like a flimsy excuse. It may had had some impact, but not enough to dilute the talent pool that much. I suspect Rob might on to something, though. The economic downturn in the late 80s and early 90s could definitely have had an impact on drafts in the mid-to-late 90s and early 2000s. Hockey can be a very expensive sport to get into, and for families facing financial difficulties, if it wasn't abundantly clear that your kid had a future in the NHL, you weren't spending that kind of cash on an extra-curricular activity unless you absolutely had to. It tracks with my experience, as well. I was part of that generation, and very very few people I knew played hockey in any sort of organized fashion (though, one guy I knew growing up ended up being a draft bust, and is the only player from the first round in 1998 to not play an NHL game).

I don't think the late 80's and early 90's would have much of an impact on the people getting drafted in the mid 90's. The players would already be in Junior by 93 or so. I suppose parents could be pulling players from hockey or not investing in development as much if, as you say, they have no shot at the NHL, but those aren't the players that disappeared that one year. The top tier seem to be missing from those one off years. Or the expectations were never realized for those top tier players.

From coaching I can tell you that sometime skill skips individual years. In minor hockey in Ontario, the '07 year for hockey has some top notch players and then a void, the '08 year seems to have a bunch of really talented players that can field entire teams of elite or next to elite talent, and then the '09 group seems to have one or two really strong players per area and then a huge drop off. It's weird how it works.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Based on my eyeball test living in a very big hockey development area, Canadian hockey is going to take a very big hit 10 years+ from now. I've played, coached, refereed, and been around the sport for most of my life, and I've never seen such ambivalence to the sport in my lifetime from the feeder crop of current youth.

 

[dappleganger]

Based on my eyeball test living in a very big hockey development area, Canadian hockey is going to take a very big hit 10 years+ from now. I've played, coached, refereed, and been around the sport for most of my life, and I've never seen such ambivalence to the sport in my lifetime from the feeder crop of current youth.

I think the saving grace will be, I think, that's pretty much the sentiment everywhere.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't think the late 80's and early 90's would have much of an impact on the people getting drafted in the mid 90's. The players would already be in Junior by 93 or so. I suppose parents could be pulling players from hockey or not investing in development as much if, as you say, they have no shot at the NHL, but those aren't the players that disappeared that one year. The top tier seem to be missing from those one off years. Or the expectations were never realized for those top tier players.

Financial struggles in the late 80s and early 90s would have had a huge impact if it forced parents to take their kids out of hockey. The kids that were in junior by 93 would have been exactly the ones that saw many of their cohort taken out of competitive hockey when they were 10-14 - you know, the years where junior leagues scout and draft them. Who knows what kind of talent might have developed from those kids whose families couldn't afford to keep them in the game.

Also, it's really not just that one year. The late 90s and first couple years of the 2000s had a number of weaker or extremely top heavy drafts.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/1373458425644978178
I know they don?t want to LTIR and also force Woll into sitting again, but Andersen on the LTIR opens up a lot of cap possibilities for the deadline. Assuming it is safe to give Campbell so many starts as the concern is now leaning more towards his health rather than capability.

 

[Bill_Berg]

https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/1373458425644978178
I know they don?t want to LTIR and also force Woll into sitting again, but Andersen on the LTIR opens up a lot of cap possibilities for the deadline. Assuming it is safe to give Campbell so many starts as the concern is now leaning more towards his health rather than capability.

Ya that's the scary thought.  Andersen on IR and Campbell gets hurt, then we've got Hutch for a while.  But if Andersen's poor play is due to injury, then he shouldn't be playing, and if Campbell isn't going to stay healthy, good to find out as soon as possible.  Can't make decisions on Andersen based on what might happen with Campbell.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/1373458425644978178
I know they don?t want to LTIR and also force Woll into sitting again, but Andersen on the LTIR opens up a lot of cap possibilities for the deadline. Assuming it is safe to give Campbell so many starts as the concern is now leaning more towards his health rather than capability.

Ya that's the scary thought.  Andersen on IR and Campbell gets hurt, then we've got Hutch for a while.  But if Andersen's poor play is due to injury, then he shouldn't be playing, and if Campbell isn't going to stay healthy, good to find out as soon as possible.  Can't make decisions on Andersen based on what might happen with Campbell.

https://twitter.com/koshtorontosun/status/1373647953328504837

Oh my...

 

[wnc096]

https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/1373458425644978178
I know they don?t want to LTIR and also force Woll into sitting again, but Andersen on the LTIR opens up a lot of cap possibilities for the deadline. Assuming it is safe to give Campbell so many starts as the concern is now leaning more towards his health rather than capability.

Ya that's the scary thought.  Andersen on IR and Campbell gets hurt, then we've got Hutch for a while.  But if Andersen's poor play is due to injury, then he shouldn't be playing, and if Campbell isn't going to stay healthy, good to find out as soon as possible.  Can't make decisions on Andersen based on what might happen with Campbell.

https://twitter.com/koshtorontosun/status/1373647953328504837

Oh my...

People rag on Andersen, but if he's hurt and we see Hutch 5 times, that is ...un-good

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1373666254733651980

Hmmm....

 

[CarltonTheBear]

People rag on Andersen, but if he's hurt and we see Hutch 5 times, that is ...un-good

For sure. If Andersen did get shut down for the regular season to get him healed up/scam the cap, we'd definitely need to bring in another legit-ish goalie as insurance.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1373666254733651980

Hmmm....

No reason to do this other than to accrue some more cap space... no reason to accrue some more cap space other than...

 

[Guilt Trip]

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1373666254733651980

Hmmm....

Trying to save some cash and maintain the flexibility of sending him to the Taxi Squad/Marlies. He's the logical choice because I don't think Dubas risks putting Spezza on waivers again.

 

[Bender]

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1373666254733651980

Hmmm....

Trying to save some cash and maintain the flexibility of sending him to the Taxi Squad/Marlies. He's the logical choice because I don't think Dubas risks putting Spezza on waivers again.

What risk? Spezza wouldn't report to the team claiming him so likelihood of a claim is low. Don't you also go to the bottom of the waiver order if you pick someone? It'd be a pointless move.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

What risk? Spezza wouldn't report to the team claiming him so likelihood of a claim is low. Don't you also go to the bottom of the waiver order if you pick someone? It'd be a pointless move.

Nah, you can't take that risk now anymore. I think the chance of Spezza following through with that threat is less now this close to the playoffs than it was at the start of the season.

Regardless though they're waiving Boyd to stash him on the taxi squad to wipe out his cap hit entirely. If you waived Spezza you'd only be able to put him on the TS on non-game days since obviously he would still be playing. So the cap benefit to waiving Spezza would be a lot less.

 

[Guilt Trip]

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1373666254733651980

Hmmm....

Trying to save some cash and maintain the flexibility of sending him to the Taxi Squad/Marlies. He's the logical choice because I don't think Dubas risks putting Spezza on waivers again.

What risk? Spezza wouldn't report to the team claiming him so likelihood of a claim is low. Don't you also go to the bottom of the waiver order if you pick someone? It'd be a pointless move.

He wouldn't go but then he's off the Leafs. If I'm a team in the north, why not screw up the Leafs?

 

[Guilt Trip]

What risk? Spezza wouldn't report to the team claiming him so likelihood of a claim is low. Don't you also go to the bottom of the waiver order if you pick someone? It'd be a pointless move.

Nah, you can't take that risk now anymore. I think the chance of Spezza following through with that threat is less now this close to the playoffs than it was at the start of the season.

Regardless though they're waiving Boyd to stash him on the taxi squad to wipe out his cap hit entirely. If you waived Spezza you'd only be able to put him on the TS on non-game days since obviously he would still be playing. So the cap benefit to waiving Spezza would be a lot less.

Without Boyd going on waivers he's the 21st guy on the active roster and they'd also have zero flexibility with the roster.