2021-22 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[herman]

https://twitter.com/marklazerus/status/1408536036322512899
His account is shut down now

Edit: I think this is Dubas' first management level hire where the person was younger than him (by like a month)

https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/1412393041198030851
Thus proving that the Athletic only has one photo of Ryan Hardy to work with.

Hardy appears comfortable being patient with player development, viewing development in a ?holistic way,? and tries to marry on and off-ice development with an emphasis on developing players as well-rounded people as well.

?There?s an old saying,? said Hardy, ?turning up the temperature of the oven doesn?t make the cake bake any faster. It just ruins it. For players, I think there?s a right timeline that they should go on. And then there?s certain things that we can look at in developing them in that holistic way that I think can help expedite that process in some ways. But I think that a lot of players maybe are done a disservice by getting thrown into the fire before they?re ready.?

Did anyone keep track of that Twitter thread Hardy had going to pump Abruzzese's tires pre-draft, and Dubas shushed him to keep a lid on it so another team wouldn't pick Nick earlier?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I appreciate his dislike for the universal 1-3-1 PP set-up. The idea that there's only 1 good powerplay formation in hockey is nuts.

 

[herman]

I appreciate his dislike for the universal 1-3-1 PP set-up. The idea that there's only 1 good powerplay formation in hockey is nuts.

The style/formation has to match the personnel and their giftings (and handedness).

The Chicago Steel, under Hardy's direction, is more fluid. For half a season or so, all DZ draws were taken by their defensemen to better position the forwards to break the puck out. He also recognizes that with the NHL being the creme de la creme of talent, the margins for error and exploitation on the ice makes it extremely improbable for any player coming up through the existing/traditional feeder systems to be able to play Total Hockey.

Proper recognition earlier on would've put Marner's vision and puckhandling on the blueline, and he'd basically be Cale Makar/Jared Spurgeon/Ryan Ellis+.

 

[ZBBM]

I don't know if you're being facetious about Marner but I can easily imagine that his coaches probably thought, oh, he's so talented his shot will improve.  It's really kind of baffling that a guy with off-the-charts skills hasn't been able to make himself better in this key area.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Proper recognition earlier on would've put Marner's vision and puckhandling on the blueline, and he'd basically be Cale Makar/Jared Spurgeon/Ryan Ellis+.

Paul knew who makes the big bucks in the NHL.

 

[herman]

I don't know if you're being facetious about Marner but I can easily imagine that his coaches probably thought, oh, he's so talented his shot will improve.  It's really kind of baffling that a guy with off-the-charts skills hasn't been able to make himself better in this key area.

Paul knew who makes the big bucks in the NHL.

Not being facetious. Position selection (and subsequent deployment) in hockey is often a very political decision, and determined by whichever coaching philosophy you develop under.

Look at Marner's build, skillset, and style. As a kid, playing up a couple of years, he's the smallest, so no coach in the late 2000s is going to think that's what a defenseman looks like. But Marner's standout skill is his vision: he clearly has a mental map of where everyone on the ice is; his physical skills (agility, motor, passing) lets him leverage that vision. He'd be better served with more targets to work with as a QB/conductor, rather than pigeon-holing him to the walls below the dots.

The Leafs somewhat recognize this too: he plays defenseman level minutes, usually at the top of the umbrella on offense. Some of it might be a management/coaching decision to justify the contracts awarded (booo). I think he could be even more dangerous behind the net on the PP (a la Gretzky) where he has a plethora of options, and his primary weakness is irrelevant.

 

[herman]

And since it's in the news, and you might have missed it the first time around: a study of the 2018 and 2019 Leafs PPs was done (pre-and during Paul McFarland's tenure)

https://seventhatauston.wordpress.com/2020/06/15/a-thorough-review-of-the-changes-made-under-paul-mcfarland/

The core of the 2021 Leafs powerplay is largely the same as it was in 2019, just with different window dressing, which is to say, the Leafs generally opt for the 2v4 approach for their PP.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

https://twitter.com/mikecommito/status/1412437431945625606

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1415323693237014538

 

[ZBBM]

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1415323693237014538

Good for him.  He's a good player whose playstyle and the toll it takes likely means this contract will be his one big shot at cashing in.  He won't be as easy to replace as some might think.

 

[L K]

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1415323693237014538

Good for him.  He's a good player whose playstyle and the toll it takes likely means this contract will be his one big shot at cashing in.  He won't be as easy to replace as some might think.

I'm fine with not paying a guy with 15 primary assists over the last two seasons 6+ million.

 

[Kin]

He is a good player but I really question how much he could be relied on to score on even a slightly less robust line. Good luck to him if he wants to be paid like a legit first liner but that would be a textbook example of why you don't build depth with free agency.

 

[ZBBM]

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1415323693237014538

Good for him.  He's a good player whose playstyle and the toll it takes likely means this contract will be his one big shot at cashing in.  He won't be as easy to replace as some might think.

I'm fine with not paying a guy with 15 primary assists over the last two seasons 6+ million.

OK, but put into the balance that he could and did score a fair amount of goals.  He's not just a puck-digger.

To be clear, I don't think he's worth anything like $6M.  But more power to him if he gets it (Nik's point well taken).

 

[Redleaf]

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1415323693237014538

Good for him.  He's a good player whose playstyle and the toll it takes likely means this contract will be his one big shot at cashing in.  He won't be as easy to replace as some might think.

I'm fine with not paying a guy with 15 primary assists over the last two seasons 6+ million.

OK, but put into the balance that he could and did score a fair amount of goals.  He's not just a puck-digger.

To be clear, I don't think he's worth anything like $6M.  But more power to him if he gets it (Nik's point well taken).

Yeah. Without the 'Engine' this team gets noticeable worse. There was a good reason he was on the top line.

 

[Guilt Trip]

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1415323693237014538

Good for him.  He's a good player whose playstyle and the toll it takes likely means this contract will be his one big shot at cashing in.  He won't be as easy to replace as some might think.

I'm fine with not paying a guy with 15 primary assists over the last two seasons 6+ million.

OK, but put into the balance that he could and did score a fair amount of goals.  He's not just a puck-digger.

To be clear, I don't think he's worth anything like $6M.  But more power to him if he gets it (Nik's point well taken).

I hope he gets 7M just somewhere else. I like Hyman. He has a great work ethic and all that but  I think he's overrated by the media and fans. The top line needs someone better as it was too easy for the habs to focus on Matthews because Hyman wasn't a threat to score.
As for his production....He had 5 primary assists and 9 goals at 5v5 last season. Mikheyev had 4 primary assists and 7 goals 5v5 and he wasn't playing with M&M. I think Hyman is a 3rd liner that's benefited playing with top players.
I think you can take his supposed money of 5.5 mill and get yourself 2 players that will balance out your line up better. I hope the Leafs go after Goodrow to fill one of those spots.
Good luck to him wherever he goes.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Yeah. Without the 'Engine' this team gets noticeable worse. There was a good reason he was on the top line.

Disagree. The top guys will still produce without him and have in the past when he's been injured. One interesting thing I found was that the PK was actually better without him since 2017/18.

 

[herman]

Yeah. Without the 'Engine' this team gets noticeable worse. There was a good reason he was on the top line.

Disagree. The top guys will still produce without him and have in the past when he's been injured. One interesting thing I found was that the PK was actually better without him since 2017/18.

Can you briefly define what you mean by better without Hyman? On-ice rates?

 

[L K]

Yeah. Without the 'Engine' this team gets noticeable worse. There was a good reason he was on the top line.

Disagree. The top guys will still produce without him and have in the past when he's been injured. One interesting thing I found was that the PK was actually better without him since 2017/18.

Can you briefly define what you mean by better without Hyman? On-ice rates?

Obviously scoring rates don't necessarily tell the whole story but:

Zach Hyman 8.35 PP goals against/60 minutes
Marner 7.35
Kerfoot 6.44
Engvall - 5.63
MIkheyev 5.60

Rielly - 11.96
Holl - 7.87
Bogosian - 7.48
Muzzin - 7.13
Brodie - 6.80

Gauthier - 13.56 ("Defensive forward")
Kapanen - 8.41
Marincin - 9.71
Ceci -7.92

Spezza - 12.99
(Matthews with 0 PP goals against in 10:57 TOI)

Really when we are talking about 1 goal/60 minutes of defensive time that really doesn't amount to a whole heck of a lot but it is what it is.

 

[Highlander]

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1415323693237014538

Good for him.  He's a good player whose playstyle and the toll it takes likely means this contract will be his one big shot at cashing in.  He won't be as easy to replace as some might think.

I'm fine with not paying a guy with 15 primary assists over the last two seasons 6+ million.

OK, but put into the balance that he could and did score a fair amount of goals.  He's not just a puck-digger.

To be clear, I don't think he's worth anything like $6M.  But more power to him if he gets it (Nik's point well taken).

I hope he gets 7M just somewhere else. I like Hyman. He has a great work ethic and all that but  I think he's overrated by the media and fans. The top line needs someone better as it was too easy for the habs to focus on Matthews because Hyman wasn't a threat to score.
As for his production....He had 5 primary assists and 9 goals at 5v5 last season. Mikheyev had 4 primary assists and 7 goals 5v5 and he wasn't playing with M&M. I think Hyman is a 3rd liner that's benefited playing with top players.
I think you can take his supposed money of 5.5 mill and get yourself 2 players that will balance out your line up better. I hope the Leafs go after Goodrow to fill one of those spots.
Good luck to him wherever he goes.

And he came back after injuries into the last two playoff scenarios and was not 100% Hyman .  Not all his fault but just the way it was. We need a playoff Hyman.  I like the guy and think he should stick around  for a bit longer, just at the right pay.

 

[azzurri63]

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1415323693237014538

Good for him.  He's a good player whose playstyle and the toll it takes likely means this contract will be his one big shot at cashing in.  He won't be as easy to replace as some might think.

I'm fine with not paying a guy with 15 primary assists over the last two seasons 6+ million.

OK, but put into the balance that he could and did score a fair amount of goals.  He's not just a puck-digger.

To be clear, I don't think he's worth anything like $6M.  But more power to him if he gets it (Nik's point well taken).

I hope he gets 7M just somewhere else. I like Hyman. He has a great work ethic and all that but  I think he's overrated by the media and fans. The top line needs someone better as it was too easy for the habs to focus on Matthews because Hyman wasn't a threat to score.
As for his production....He had 5 primary assists and 9 goals at 5v5 last season. Mikheyev had 4 primary assists and 7 goals 5v5 and he wasn't playing with M&M. I think Hyman is a 3rd liner that's benefited playing with top players.
I think you can take his supposed money of 5.5 mill and get yourself 2 players that will balance out your line up better. I hope the Leafs go after Goodrow to fill one of those spots.
Good luck to him wherever he goes.

Ain't worth 7 million and if someone pays him that manager should be fired. Guy has great drive but always said it he has stone hands and is not a 1st line player. His ability to finish hurts the team. Good luck Zach wherever you go.