2021-22 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[herman]

Yeah. Without the 'Engine' this team gets noticeable worse. There was a good reason he was on the top line.

Disagree. The top guys will still produce without him and have in the past when he's been injured. One interesting thing I found was that the PK was actually better without him since 2017/18.

Can you briefly define what you mean by better without Hyman? On-ice rates?

Obviously scoring rates don't necessarily tell the whole story but:

Zach Hyman 8.35 PP goals against/60 minutes
Marner 7.35
Kerfoot 6.44
Engvall - 5.63
MIkheyev 5.60

Rielly - 11.96
Holl - 7.87
Bogosian - 7.48
Muzzin - 7.13
Brodie - 6.80

Gauthier - 13.56 ("Defensive forward")
Kapanen - 8.41
Marincin - 9.71
Ceci -7.92

Spezza - 12.99
(Matthews with 0 PP goals against in 10:57 TOI)

Really when we are talking about 1 goal/60 minutes of defensive time that really doesn't amount to a whole heck of a lot but it is what it is.

What I was kind of driving at was usage. Hyman often started PKs: i.e. DZ draws vs fresh top PP units. The faster forwards (Engvall, Mikheyev, Marner) were used more on the fly, which generally leads to better looking rates.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Yeah. Without the 'Engine' this team gets noticeable worse. There was a good reason he was on the top line.

Disagree. The top guys will still produce without him and have in the past when he's been injured. One interesting thing I found was that the PK was actually better without him since 2017/18.

Can you briefly define what you mean by better without Hyman? On-ice rates?

PK% was better without him.

 

[Bender]

https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/ok8tw4/johnston_leafs_related_tidbits

Man there is going to be a lot of movement with this team.

 

[ZBBM]

FWIW this MLHS guy's analysis is ... Hyman won't be easy to replace.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2021/07/14/who-can-replace-zach-hyman-on-the-toronto-maple-leafs-breaking-down-the-free-agent-and-trade-options/

His 5 on 5 stats are pretty impressive when measured against all forwards.  And the alternatives discussed are either far-fetched or not that great.

But what really took me by surprise is that he's 29.  I hadn't realized that; I thought he was 26 or maybe 27.  That's a big red light for me.  I just don't think guys like him can keep it going much past 30 (and the author draws a comparison with Simmonds and his drop off).  But somebody will give him 6 years, I bet.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Yeah. Without the 'Engine' this team gets noticeable worse. There was a good reason he was on the top line.

Disagree. The top guys will still produce without him and have in the past when he's been injured. One interesting thing I found was that the PK was actually better without him since 2017/18.

Can you briefly define what you mean by better without Hyman? On-ice rates?

Obviously scoring rates don't necessarily tell the whole story but:

Zach Hyman 8.35 PP goals against/60 minutes
Marner 7.35
Kerfoot 6.44
Engvall - 5.63
MIkheyev 5.60

Rielly - 11.96
Holl - 7.87
Bogosian - 7.48
Muzzin - 7.13
Brodie - 6.80

Gauthier - 13.56 ("Defensive forward")
Kapanen - 8.41
Marincin - 9.71
Ceci -7.92

Spezza - 12.99
(Matthews with 0 PP goals against in 10:57 TOI)

Really when we are talking about 1 goal/60 minutes of defensive time that really doesn't amount to a whole heck of a lot but it is what it is.

Just using last year's stats on forwards who played at least the same amount as Hyman on the PK...84 minutes, 7th on the team overall. Hyman and Marner played the most PK time per game. They're 1 second apart. Mikheyev played 23 seconds less per game. Interesting is that Foligno played 6 seconds less when he came. Mikheyev leads the team and was 2nd in the league for shorthanded shots. No one on the Leafs is close to him.
Hyman 84.24 mins...13 PPGA...9.64 PPGA/60
Marner 106.52 mins...12 PPGA...6.74 PPGA/60
Mikheyev 85.35 mins...7 PPGA...4.91 PPGA/60
Kerfoot 84.58 mins...10 PPGA...7.06 PPGA/60
He also blocks the least amount of shots out of these 4 main PKers.
The Leafs PK with Hyman this past year ran at 76.4%. When he was gone for those 13 games, it ran at 85.3%.

 

[Guilt Trip]

FWIW this MLHS guy's analysis is ... Hyman won't be easy to replace.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2021/07/14/who-can-replace-zach-hyman-on-the-toronto-maple-leafs-breaking-down-the-free-agent-and-trade-options/

His 5 on 5 stats are pretty impressive when measured against all forwards.  And the alternatives discussed are either far-fetched or not that great.

But what really took me by surprise is that he's 29.  I hadn't realized that; I thought he was 26 or maybe 27.  That's a big red light for me.  I just don't think guys like him can keep it going much past 30 (and the author draws a comparison with Simmonds and his drop off).  But somebody will give him 6 years, I bet.

Coleman, Garland, Wood, would be great additions.

 

[ZBBM]

FWIW this MLHS guy's analysis is ... Hyman won't be easy to replace.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2021/07/14/who-can-replace-zach-hyman-on-the-toronto-maple-leafs-breaking-down-the-free-agent-and-trade-options/

His 5 on 5 stats are pretty impressive when measured against all forwards.  And the alternatives discussed are either far-fetched or not that great.

But what really took me by surprise is that he's 29.  I hadn't realized that; I thought he was 26 or maybe 27.  That's a big red light for me.  I just don't think guys like him can keep it going much past 30 (and the author draws a comparison with Simmonds and his drop off).  But somebody will give him 6 years, I bet.

Coleman, Garland, Wood, would be great additions.

I'd class Coleman & Garland under "far-fetched."  On Wood, I defer to your opinion.

 

[Guilt Trip]

FWIW this MLHS guy's analysis is ... Hyman won't be easy to replace.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2021/07/14/who-can-replace-zach-hyman-on-the-toronto-maple-leafs-breaking-down-the-free-agent-and-trade-options/

His 5 on 5 stats are pretty impressive when measured against all forwards.  And the alternatives discussed are either far-fetched or not that great.

But what really took me by surprise is that he's 29.  I hadn't realized that; I thought he was 26 or maybe 27.  That's a big red light for me.  I just don't think guys like him can keep it going much past 30 (and the author draws a comparison with Simmonds and his drop off).  But somebody will give him 6 years, I bet.

Coleman, Garland, Wood, would be great additions.

I'd class Coleman & Garland under "far-fetched."  On Wood, I defer to your opinion.

Home run category for them. I guess we'll find out soon enough though.

 

[Bender]

https://twitter.com/Account4hockey/status/1415504845683953664

Is Dave Pagnotta even worth referencing? IIRC TFP is not all that credible.

 

[Guilt Trip]

https://twitter.com/Account4hockey/status/1415504845683953664

Is Dave Pagnotta even worth referencing? IIRC TFP is not all that credible.

Only way Landeskog leaves is if they lowball him. Don't see that happening.

 

[Bender]

https://twitter.com/Account4hockey/status/1415504845683953664

Is Dave Pagnotta even worth referencing? IIRC TFP is not all that credible.

Only way Landeskog leaves is if they lowball him. Don't see that happening.

The report is that they're lowballing him and that contract talks haven't gone well.

https://www.nhl.com/news/colorado-avalanche-gabriel-landeskog-contract-talks/c-325657442

 

[lamajama]

The silly (bull crap) season is in full swing.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I don't think he's coming to Toronto but things sure don't sound good between Colorado and Landeskog. I get they likely have concerns with his longevity but $5-5.5mil is basically a slap to the face.

 

[Guilt Trip]

https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/1415652463445692420

Smart move

 

[L K]

I don't think he's coming to Toronto but things sure don't sound good between Colorado and Landeskog. I get they likely have concerns with his longevity but $5-5.5mil is basically a slap to the face.

Landeskog doesn't make any sense in Toronto. He's not a 5.5 million dollar player right now.  We can't afford a 5th 7 million dollar contract.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1415655771774328837

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1415655771774328837

Leafs know that Hyman's a goner, there's enough teams out there who will be in a position to pay him more than the Leafs will. Same might not be true for Andersen, and the Leafs still want the option to circle back to him after free agency opens if they can't find a suitable replacement and Andersen can't find a deal he likes either.

 

[Kin]

Hyman seems like he'd be a good Seattle signing. He's not super expensive so he's unlikely to be a real problem cap wise near the end of the deal and in the short-term he helps with the floor. He's not good enough that he'd jeopardize a plan to bottom feed and acquire assets but he's good enough to contribute if the plan is to try and do what Vegas did.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Hyman seems like he'd be a good Seattle signing. He's not super expensive so he's unlikely to be a real problem cap wise near the end of the deal and in the short-term he helps with the floor. He's not good enough that he'd jeopardize a plan to bottom feed and acquire assets but he's good enough to contribute if the plan is to try and do what Vegas did.

I always figured he was Edmonton bound, but Seattle makes sense too. Maybe Colorado if Landeskog does indeed leave.

 

[Kin]

Hyman seems like he'd be a good Seattle signing. He's not super expensive so he's unlikely to be a real problem cap wise near the end of the deal and in the short-term he helps with the floor. He's not good enough that he'd jeopardize a plan to bottom feed and acquire assets but he's good enough to contribute if the plan is to try and do what Vegas did.

I always figured he was Edmonton bound, but Seattle makes sense too. Maybe Colorado if Landeskog does indeed leave.

If Edmonton ends up with Keith and Hyman on their cap for 12 million-ish next year then, well, I'm already happy with the offseason.